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Wallace108

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PostSubject: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyWed Nov 09, 2011 10:38 pm

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. (AP) — Penn State trustees fired football coach Joe Paterno and university president Graham Spanier amid the growing furor over how the school handled sex abuse allegations against an assistant coach.

The massive shakeup Wednesday night came hours after Paterno announced that he planned to retire at the end of his 46th season.

http://news.yahoo.com/psu-trustees-paterno-must-now-031728538.html
--------------------------------------------


Wow, I'm a little shocked by this. I thought they would allow him to resign or retire.

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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyWed Nov 09, 2011 11:21 pm

60+ years and this is how he goes out...its a shame.

The board has had it out for ever since he refused to retire a few years back, they finally found a way to get rid of him.
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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyWed Nov 09, 2011 11:35 pm

Let me first state that I'm not a Penn State fan, and I'm not really a Paterno fan. I've always respected him, but I feel he should have stepped down years ago.

In no way would I hold Paterno responsible for what happened. In fact, I commend him in a way.
When the graduate assistant told Paterno what he had witnessed, Paterno told him to talk to the athletic director. Basically, Paterno moved it up the chain of command.

How many coaches (or other people in a position of power) would have told the witness to forget about it? Or say they would take care of it and then not in order to protect their friend? But Paterno didn't try to protect his friend ... he moved it forward.

Should he have called the police? On hindsight, it's easy to say yes. But was he supposed to rat out his defensive coordinator and friend based solely on what a grad assistant claimed? Put yourself in Paterno's situation. Based on what he knew, I think he did the right thing.

As always, it's easy for us to say what we would do in a situation. But it's different when you're actually in the situation. I don't fault Paterno for how he handled it.

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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyWed Nov 09, 2011 11:39 pm

@Wallace108 wrote:
Let me first state that I'm not a Penn State fan, and I'm not really a Paterno fan. I've always respected him, but I feel he should have stepped down years ago.

In no way would I hold Paterno responsible for what happened. In fact, I commend him in a way.
When the graduate assistant told Paterno what he had witnessed, Paterno told him to talk to the athletic director. Basically, Paterno moved it up the chain of command.

How many coaches (or other people in a position of power) would have told the witness to forget about it? Or say they would take care of it and then not in order to protect their friend? But Paterno didn't try to protect his friend ... he moved it forward.

Should he have called the police? On hindsight, it's easy to say yes. But was he supposed to rat out his defensive coordinator and friend based solely on what a grad assistant claimed? Put yourself in Paterno's situation. Based on what he knew, I think he did the right thing.

As always, it's easy for us to say what we would do in a situation. But it's different when you're actually in the situation. I don't fault Paterno for how he handled it.

Absolutely agree with everything you just said. I think at the time he did what he felt was right and Im sure he hoped the higher ups would investigate properly and handle it, how was that not the right thing to do. Should he have gone to the police...maybe...but we werent there, we dont know the whole situation.
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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyWed Nov 09, 2011 11:47 pm

i think the university is doing the right thing i read the indictment today and Joe Pa knew what was going on and all he did was talk to his superiors about it and he ignored the fact that 10,11 years old kids were being raped.i actually think he should have being fired long time ago

Sandusky is charged with the following offenses:


Seven counts of involuntary deviate sexual intercourse, all first-degree felonies which are each punishable by up to 20 years in prison and a $25,000 fine. One count of aggravated indecent assault, a second-degree felony punishable by up to ten years in prison and a $25,000 fine.

Four counts of unlawful contact with a minor, all first-degree felonies which are each punishable by up to 20 years in prison and a $25,000 fine.

Four counts of unlawful contact with a minor, all third-degree felonies which are each punishable by up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.

Four counts of endangering the welfare of a child, all third-degree felonies which are each punishable by up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.

Four counts of endangering the welfare of a child, all first-degree misdemeanors which are each punishable by up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

Eight counts of corruption of minors, all first-degree misdemeanors which are each punishable by up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

One count of indecent assault, a third-degree felony punishable by up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.

Four counts of indecent assault, all second-degree misdemeanors which are each punishable by up to two years in prison and a $5,000 fine.

Two counts of indecent assault, all first-degree misdemeanors which are each punishable by up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

One count of attempt to commit indecent assault, a second-degree misdemeanor punishable by up to two years in prison and a $5,000 fine.





sandusky indictment (all 23 pages)



http://www.scribd.com/doc/72104007/Sandusky-Indictment

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Wallace108

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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 12:01 am

@fer69 wrote:
i think the university is doing the right thing i read the indictment today and Joe Pa knew what was going on and all he did was talk to his superiors about it and he ignored the fact that 10,11 years old kids were being raped.i actually think he should have being fired long time ago
I completely understand what you're saying, fer. But I'm not sure I agree that Paterno "knew" what was going on.

All he knew is that a grad assistant made an accusation against Sandusky. How many of us would call the police on one of our friends based solely on what another person claimed, without any evidence to back it up? For all Paterno knew, the grad assistant could have been someone with a grudge trying to damage Sandusky's reputation. Paterno very easily could have just swept it under the rug, but he didn't ... he moved it up the chain of command. And what about the grad assistant? Why isn't anyone busting his balls for not calling the police? What Paterno did is essentially what the grad assistant did ... move it up the chain of command.

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fer69

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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 12:15 am

may be he did not know everything but the one thing that he did know was that Sandusky was seen doing inappropriate thing to a 10 year old kid and he just didn't do enough and that's probably why he was fired

the problem here is that there's kids involved and we as adults is or should be our responsability to protect them no matter what. IMO
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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 12:29 am

@fer69 wrote:
may be he did not know everything but the one thing that he did know was that Sandusky was seen doing inappropriate thing to a 10 year old kid and he just didn't do enough and that's probably why he was fired

the problem here is that there's kids involved and we as adults is or should be our responsability to protect them no matter what. IMO
I don't disagree. And it's weird having this discussion at the same time we're having the discussion about Herman Cain in the Roundtable. The problem with allegations is that sometimes they're not true. I've seen innocent people accused of crimes they didn't commit. And I've seen how their lives were ruined because of it. What would have happened if Paterno had called the police and it turned out that the grad assistant just made up the accusation? I think the key word here in regard to Paterno is hindsight. On hindsight, it's easy to say he should have done more. But based on what he knew at the time, he did what he felt was right ... pass it along to his superiors to look into it. On hindsight, he could have done more. But that's easy to say now knowing what was happening.

That's just my take, and I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just trying to give Paterno the benefit of the doubt. If he was trying to protect his friend or the university, he could have silenced the grad assistant. But he didn't. He passed the accusation along to his superiors. With that said, there's a special place reserved for Sandusky.

EDIT: My stance is based on the assumption that Paterno only knew about the grad assistant's accusation. If we learn that Paterno knew more, then my position will certainly change.

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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 6:13 am

Plus, these are just ALLEGATIONS. There has been nothing proven at all. Who isn't to say the kids are making this stuff up to try and get this kind of response? I know that sounds pretty wrong, but in this day and age it seems kids/adults will do anything to get in the media.

It all seems like a knee jerk reaction by the university and I would not want to coach there. Not because of the tarnished name, but because I would know that no matter how long I was there or what I did for that university- they would not have my back AT ALL.

As it stands, I think it's bullshit that JoePa was fired. I hope the fans boycott the game this weekend to show their distaste for the board of trustees.

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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 7:51 am

@fer69 wrote:
may be he did not know everything but the one thing that he did know was that Sandusky was seen doing inappropriate thing to a 10 year old kid and he just didn't do enough and that's probably why he was fired

the problem here is that there's kids involved and we as adults is or should be our responsability to protect them no matter what. IMO



Holy shit, here come the witch trials
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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 8:15 am

First let me say, I'm a huge PENN STATE fan and JOE PA supporter. JOE PA is, or should I say WAS PENN STATE.

I also want to mention that I do not condone the actions that some of the individuals under Joe Pa took against minors. As mentioned in other posts, these right now are just allegations. It seems that there is a witch hunt on the PSU campus and because JOE PA is the face of PENN STATE, I feel that the trustees had no option but to fire JOE PA. And it's sad, that a man of his stature who has done so much for the school was fired in the manner in which he was fired.

I do think that he should have been allowed to finish the season and step down in a respectful manner. The trustees made a knee jerk reaction to a problem that will not go away. The ramifications of this issue will not go away because Joe Pa was fired. The school will not safe face by firing Joe Pa.

But as mentioned, the school wanted Joe Pa gone a long time ago, and they finally were able to sink their teeth in to him deep enough and not have to worry about any ramifications for firing him.

It truly is a sad day for Penn State University on all levels, not just football.

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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 9:46 am

Why did the graduate student choose to tell the football coach over the police?
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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 11:25 am

From this article

Quote :
You know, there’s a part of me who looks at the actions of each of non-raping grown men in the “Pennsylvania State University small-child-allegedly-being-raped-by-a-grown-man-who-is-part-of-the-football-hierarchy” scandal and can understand why those men could rationalize a) not immediately acting in the interests of a small child being raped, b) not immediately going to the police, c) doing only the minimum legal requirements in the situation, d) acting to keep from exposing their organization to a scandal. But here’s the thing: that part of me? The part that understands these actions? That part of me is a fucking coward. And so by their actions — and by their inactions — were these men.

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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 11:33 am

i personally think that the grad student upon witnessing this should have grab a blunt instrument and beat the sick fucker to death

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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 1:37 pm

You know how many things probably get told to a coach that sound like wild allegations? "I saw so and so out drinking past curfew last night" "I know that so and so broke a team rule yesterday". I would be maddening to report EVERY SINGLE allegation. Does molestation of a child fall into a different category? ABSOLUTELY. However, how could a person fathom that a coach, someone he trusts, is touching little boys in the locker room shower? That sounds pretty wild if you ask me.

My issue isn't that JoePa got canned (ONLY if they find the allegations to be true), it's that he got canned and not the one WHO ACTUALLY WITNESSED THE INCIDENT. JoePa made an effort to report it and the person above him did not take the proper action. JoePa is a football coach, not a children's service worker. He doesn't have the training in those things because he deals with college kids, not elementary school children.


I don't think you'll find on page 384 of the playbook a line reading: here's what to do if you are made aware of a child being molested

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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 1:50 pm

BGSU A Dub wrote:
However, how could a person fathom that a coach, someone he trusts, is touching little boys in the locker room shower? That sounds pretty wild if you ask me.

Isn't that pretty much the status quo when something like this comes to light? You always hear friends and neighbors saying they had no idea and that this person seemed like the perfect neighbor/friend/co-worker.

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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 2:36 pm

@JonM229 wrote:
BGSU A Dub wrote:
However, how could a person fathom that a coach, someone he trusts, is touching little boys in the locker room shower? That sounds pretty wild if you ask me.

Isn't that pretty much the status quo when something like this comes to light? You always hear friends and neighbors saying they had no idea and that this person seemed like the perfect neighbor/friend/co-worker.


Yep. It's not human nature to have ill thoughts about people or that people (especially one's we are close to) are capable of criminal or deviant behavior.

If it comes to light that the allegations were bullshit, I hope JoePa flips them the bird, never donates another cent, and coaches for Michigan St., Minnesota, or another Big 10 team.

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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 6:18 pm

@vasteeler wrote:
i personally think that the grad student upon witnessing this should have grab a blunt instrument and beat the sick fucker to death

that's what i would have done
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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 6:43 pm

and what about the student(his name escapes me) he pretty much did the same thing coach p did. why didnt he go to the police and why isnt he being vilified?

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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 7:44 pm

If you can believe Mark Madden, and I'm not so sure you can, this story could get a lot crazier.
----------------------------------------


Quote :
by Michael Hurley

In April, Pittsburgh radio host Mark Madden wrote a story revealing Penn State for much of the cover-up of Jerry Sandusky's alleged child rape that has been exposed in the past week. While it didn't raise many eyebrows back then, six months later it looks to be incredibly accurate.

On Thursday morning, just hours after legendary head coach Joe Paterno and university president Graham Spanier were fired by the school's board of trustees, Madden was asked on WEEI's The Dennis and Callahan Show what he believes the next piece of news will be.

What he said was twice as shocking as anything that's been released thus far.

"I can give you a rumor and I can give you something I think might happen," Madden told John Dennis and Gerry Callahan. "I hear there's a rumor that there will be a more shocking development from the Second Mile Foundation -- and hold on to your stomachs, boys, this is gross, I will use the only language I can -- that Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to rich donors. That was being investigated by two prominent columnists even as I speak."

After the news spread, Madden later explained via Twitter why he went public with the rumors.

"I normally abhor giving RUMORS credence," Madden wrote. "But whole Sandusky scandal started out as a RUMOR. It gets deeper and more disgusting all the time. One of state's top columnists investigating. That adds credence. I am NOT rumor's original source. [Why does] Sandusky deserve benefit of doubt?"

Madden also spoke more definitively on Dennis and Callahan to the cover-up efforts at the school and beyond that he expects will be made public soon.

"The other thing I think that may eventually become uncovered, and I talked about this in my original article back in April, is that I think they'll find out that Jerry Sandusky was told that he had to retire in exchange for a cover-up," Madden said. "If you look at the timeline, that makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sandusky-rumored-to-have-been-pimping-out-young-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden.html

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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 8:00 pm

Paterno was foolish for thinking he could coach the rest of the season then retire.


He owned that program, he owned that school, he owned that town.


He didn't do enough to protect his kids, he should be fired.

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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 8:03 pm

@vasteeler wrote:
and what about the student(his name escapes me) he pretty much did the same thing coach p did. why didnt he go to the police and why isnt he being vilified?


Not close to the same situation, but he should have gone to the police.

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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 8:17 pm

@mcg24 wrote:
@vasteeler wrote:
and what about the student(his name escapes me) he pretty much did the same thing coach p did. why didnt he go to the police and why isnt he being vilified?


Not close to the same situation, but he should have gone to the police.
The witness, Mike McQueary, is now the assistant coach for Penn State. Unlike Paterno, he witnessed the alleged crime, didn't call police, but yet he didn't get fired. Paterno fired 2087824411

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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 8:38 pm

@Wallace108 wrote:
@mcg24 wrote:
@vasteeler wrote:
and what about the student(his name escapes me) he pretty much did the same thing coach p did. why didnt he go to the police and why isnt he being vilified?


Not close to the same situation, but he should have gone to the police.
The witness, Mike McQueary, is now the assistant coach for Penn State. Unlike Paterno, he witnessed the alleged crime, didn't call police, but yet he didn't get fired. Paterno fired 2087824411


Once again, Paterno owned that school. He was/is the face of Penn State University. Whether it is warranted or not, I would hold him more accountable than anyone else to make the right decisions.

Secondly, if you have ever played an organized sport in high school or college, the coach is responsible for everything. If you have a problem like this, you tell your coach. Your coach will handle it from there. The fact that the coach was told and nothing was done is disgusting.

Paterno fulfilled his legal responsibilities and that was all he felt he needed to do. He didn't follow up on it. He allowed it to be swept under the rug. His Penn State legacy was just too much to risk. Now it is ruined. He is ruined. And he deserves to be.

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PostSubject: Re: Paterno fired   Paterno fired EmptyThu Nov 10, 2011 9:53 pm

I agree with mcg24, Paterno did what he was legally required to do, but he failed as a human being.

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