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Wallace108

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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 23, 2012 3:00 pm

@Buddha Bus wrote:
I agree that it sucks when a school is punished for improprieties when the perpetrators leave and get away scott free. There needs to be a way where this can't happen. Reggie Bush was another glaring example of someone who caused a school to be heavily scrutinized and sanctioned while he rode off into the NFL sunset and was rewarded with a large payday. I feel there should be some agreement between college athletics and professional sports leagues that if a student is caught violating the rules they should be punished by the professional league if they leave before atoning for those violations in some form.
Bingo!!

Buddha, I apologize. I have to step out real quick and don't have time to comment on everything else. But I wanted to at least acknowledge that part of your response. I completely agree with that. Those who break the rules need to be held accountable. Unfortunately, when it comes to the NCAA, those who broke the rules often get off (and get rewarded by leaving for the NFL) while those who had nothing to do with the violations get punished. However, I understand the need to punish the schools sometimes. It really is a complicated issue.

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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 23, 2012 3:05 pm

@Wallace108 wrote:
@Buddha Bus wrote:
I agree that it sucks when a school is punished for improprieties when the perpetrators leave and get away scott free. There needs to be a way where this can't happen. Reggie Bush was another glaring example of someone who caused a school to be heavily scrutinized and sanctioned while he rode off into the NFL sunset and was rewarded with a large payday. I feel there should be some agreement between college athletics and professional sports leagues that if a student is caught violating the rules they should be punished by the professional league if they leave before atoning for those violations in some form.
Bingo!!

Buddha, I apologize. I have to step out real quick and don't have time to comment on everything else. But I wanted to at least acknowledge that part of your response. I completely agree with that. Those who break the rules need to be held accountable. Unfortunately, when it comes to the NCAA, those who broke the rules often get off (and get rewarded by leaving for the NFL) while those who had nothing to do with the violations get punished. However, I understand the need to punish the schools sometimes. It really is a complicated issue.


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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 23, 2012 4:00 pm

I don't agree with punishing current players and staff, especially if they didn't have a damn thing to do with the scandal.

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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyTue Jul 24, 2012 2:31 am

@bayz101 wrote:
I don't agree with punishing current players and staff, especially if they didn't have a damn thing to do with the scandal.

This has been the message throughout. The unfortunate thing is: how do you punish a university with limiting the collateral damage to the students? You don't think that Penn State will find some way to raise tuition to help pay off some of this newly acquired debt? "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 2829330259

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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyTue Jul 24, 2012 8:35 am

Whyant5 wrote:
@bayz101 wrote:
I don't agree with punishing current players and staff, especially if they didn't have a damn thing to do with the scandal.

This has been the message throughout. The unfortunate thing is: how do you punish a university with limiting the collateral damage to the students? You don't think that Penn State will find some way to raise tuition to help pay off some of this newly acquired debt? "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 2829330259

Exactly! PSU isn't going to pay that fine. The students are going to pay it. Students who had absolutely nothing to do with what happened. Students who had nothing to do with the football program.

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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyTue Jul 24, 2012 8:41 am

As they say, shit rolls down hill.

Then you read a story like this and it just aggravates you that they will be the ones suffering:



Yet there were no shouts or yells of solidarity here. Nobody vowed to protest or even gather. The anger of the past several months has given way to something else – something more constructive.

The Penn State identity everyone grew up with no longer exists. And while the football coaches and players may not all stay for the long term, it will be up to the Jimmy Olsons of the school to start something new. So if there was one overriding emotion that followed the shock, it was a resoluteness to rebuild this school's image, no matter how long that takes.

Read more: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--penn-state-students-are-sad--mostly-quiet--but-resolve-to-improve-the-school-s-reputation.html

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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyTue Jul 24, 2012 10:53 am

Here's something I'm having trouble with:

Quote :
Investigation of Sandusky in 1998 Raises Questions

In 1998, the Penn State campus police and local law enforcement authorities investigated an allegation that Jerry Sandusky, then a prominent coach with the university’s football team, had engaged in inappropriate and perhaps sexual conduct with a boy in the football facility’s showers.

A lengthy police report was generated, state prosecutors said. The boy was interviewed. A second potential victim was identified. Child welfare authorities were brought in. Sandusky confessed to showering with one or both of the children. The local district attorney was given material to consider prosecution.

In the end, no prosecution was undertaken. The child welfare agency did not take action. And, according to prosecutors, the commander of the university’s campus police force told his detective, Ronald Schreffler, to close the case.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/sports/ncaafootball/aftermath-of-1998-sandusky-investigation-raises-additional-questions.html?_r=1

Why is it being considered a coverup by PSU officials when the local authorities, prosecutor, and child welfare knew about the allegations and didn't do anything? The whole thing was a cluster fuck on many levels. What were Paterno and other PSU officials expected to do when local authorities weren't pursuing it?

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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyTue Jul 24, 2012 11:14 am

Moody's Investor Service May Downgrade Penn State's Credit

Quote :

Moody's Investors Service said Tuesday it may cut its rating on Penn State's credit as the university deals with the fallout from the Jerry Sandusky child sexual-abuse case and sanctions against the school's football team.

The agency has an `Aa1' rating on Pennsylvania State University's credit. That is its second-highest possible rating. The firm said a recent report by former FBI Director Louis Freeh and sanctions levied by the NCAA could hurt student enrollment and fundraising for the university, and the school also faces uncertainty in the form of ongoing federal and state investigations.

Penn State has about $1 billion in debt, Moody's said. A downgrade could make it more expensive for Penn State to borrow money, which would be another long-term cost in a scandal that has already cost the school immeasurably.

Looks like tuition may get even more expensive. I wonder if it's possible for the Dept of Education to freeze tuition rates at Penn State, since it is a public school.

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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyTue Jul 24, 2012 11:29 am

Wally, you make a good point.

The questions remain:
1. How in-depth was the local authorities and Child Services investigation into the accusations?
2. Were the local authorities as well as CS afraid to dive deeper in to the matter because of who was accused?
3. Why was Sandusky allowed to stay on at PSU once the allegations came to light, without there being a more thorough investigation by the school and authorities?

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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyTue Jul 24, 2012 11:32 am

Sandusky will spend the rest of his life in prison. Paterno is dead. Curley and Schultz will receive some kind of punishment. This was a criminal matter and was handled as such. But the PSU football program didn't violate any NCAA bylaws. So how can the NCAA hand out punishments when PSU didn't violate any of its rules?

And this punishment wasn't handled like it was supposed to be handled by the NCAA. It came from one person ... NCAA president Mark Emmert. This is really starting to sound like the situation we have with Goodell and the NFL.

Quote :
In punishing Penn State in the wake of its child sex-abuse case, NCAA President Mark Emmert turned to the Division I Board of Directors for authority rather than use the enforcement procedures the NCAA typically applies to rules violators, USA TODAY Sports has learned.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/usa-today-news/2012/07/22/board-gives-emmert-power-to-act-on-penn-state/

Like I said earlier ... this isn't as black and white as it seems.

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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyTue Jul 24, 2012 11:39 am

@stlrtruck wrote:
Wally, you make a good point.

The questions remain:
1. How in-depth was the local authorities and Child Services investigation into the accusations?
2. Were the local authorities as well as CS afraid to dive deeper in to the matter because of who was accused?
3. Why was Sandusky allowed to stay on at PSU once the allegations came to light, without there being a more thorough investigation by the school and authorities?

All good questions, truck.

Here's the way I see it: One man (Freeh) acted as the judge and jury. And one man (Emmert) acted as the executioner. So we've already determined that Paterno and the other officials are guilty and have punished them based on one man's investigation. They (and Paterno's family) haven't had a chance to defend themselves. That isn't how our system is supposed to work.

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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyTue Jul 24, 2012 3:25 pm

I want to go on record as saying I do not agree with the vacating of wins by Penn State from 1998 till 2011. They did not gain any type of competitive edge from this misconduct that helped them to win any of those games. It was done purely for the NCAA to save face and not to have Paterno as the winningest coach in college football. This is one area where I think they went too far as Penn State, by all accounts and beliefs, won those games fairly and without an unfair advantage. It's stupid to try to act like it never happened.

Wally, as far as the point about the local authorities hosing things up, there has been some speculation and rumor that Paterno and may have had so much power and standing in the community that he may have been able to sway the law enforcement authorities in the region/state due to their respect towards him. It's a distinct possibility that Paterno or the heads of the university mislead, under-reported, or obstructed those investigations causing them to be unable to find evidence beyond a reasonable doubt or of enough merit to charge him with a crime.

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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyWed Jul 25, 2012 5:29 am

@Buddha Bus wrote:
Wally, as far as the point about the local authorities hosing things up, there has been some speculation and rumor that Paterno and may have had so much power and standing in the community that he may have been able to sway the law enforcement authorities in the region/state due to their respect towards him. It's a distinct possibility that Paterno or the heads of the university mislead, under-reported, or obstructed those investigations causing them to be unable to find evidence beyond a reasonable doubt or of enough merit to charge him with a crime.

Yeah, we all know the power that football coaches can have within a community. And Paterno was at the top of the list of most powerful coaches. But it's just speculation that he had any sway over local law enforcement. If PSU is going to be held accountable, then people in local law enforcement, child welfare, and the prosecutor need to be held accountable. Or at least investigated. Their failure to pursue the case against Sandusky in 1998 led to more children being raped.

Here's what Gerald Lauro, an investigator with the Department of Public Welfare in 1998, had to say:

Quote :
“I feel bad that there was not more information so I could have done something,” he said. “I feel bad that the mom thinks I should’ve done more. I just didn’t have all the information back then.”

But here's what he and others knew back then:

Quote :
“Sandusky admitted showering naked with Victim 6, admitted to hugging Victim 6 while in the shower and admitted that it was wrong,” said the report issued last weekend by the Pennsylvania attorney general. “Detective Schreffler advised Sandusky not to shower with any child again and Sandusky said that he would not.”

The authorities knew something was going on. And they did nothing. And now Paterno and PSU are taking the fall all alone. And I still don't understand why this is being portrayed as a coverup when it clearly wasn't.

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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyWed Jul 25, 2012 8:46 am

NCAA president Mark Emmert used to be the chancellor at LSU. When they fired football coach Gerry DiNardo, here's Emmert's rationale for their decision:

Quote :
"The critical role of our football program is clear -- it is of vital importance to the entire LSU community: Our students, our fans and alumni worldwide, and the state of Louisiana. Simply put, success in LSU football is essential for the success of Louisiana State University."

http://www.lsureveille.com/sports/emmert-revamped-athletics-program-1.1192457#.UBAGeqOkKuI

So, based on Emmert's own logic, he not only killed the PSU football team, he just killed the entire school.

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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyWed Jul 25, 2012 12:21 pm

@Wallace108 wrote:
And now Paterno and PSU are taking the fall all alone. And I still don't understand why this is being portrayed as a coverup when it clearly wasn't.

They did actively cover up the McQueary incident, which in and of itself should warrant harsh penalties.

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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyWed Jul 25, 2012 12:27 pm


You may not like this but I'm glad the NCAA spanked the hell out of PSU.

All your comments I never read once that PSU should of gottin rid of Sandusky in 1998 when the first report can out. I know I would have dropped him like a rock with just a hint of sex with a child.

So burn in hell PSU football and I was a long time fan of PaJoe.

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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyWed Jul 25, 2012 2:17 pm

@effyou515 wrote:

You may not like this but I'm glad the NCAA spanked the hell out of PSU.

All your comments I never read once that PSU should of gottin rid of Sandusky in 1998 when the first report can out. I know I would have dropped him like a rock with just a hint of sex with a child.

So burn in hell PSU football and I was a long time fan of PaJoe.

Rather than fire him in'98, they let him retire and continue to use the Penn State facilities to lure young men.

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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyWed Jul 25, 2012 2:23 pm

In another unprecedented move, many of the football players have opted to stay at Penn State with their new head coach and begin to rebuild the program.

One player stated, "One man did not build this legacy, and one man will not tear it down. We will build our own legacy!"

I give the players credit for sticking to their convictions. These guys weren't at fault and they are standing on their own to fit in a move of solidarity, when they had a chance to go to another program where they could contend for a conference championship/national title.

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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyWed Jul 25, 2012 2:27 pm

Wally, I agree that the local authorities should be held accountable. It's inexcusable that more wasn't done to Sandusky by them than "don't do it again". However, I disagree that there was no cover-up. If there was no cover-up, then why in the hell was nothing done and the media not blowing up with the allegations back in 1998? Rest assured, there was an agenda to sweep the whole thing under the rug to protect the university's image, Paterno's image, and quite possibly even Sandusky's image given his name recognition as the potential heir apparent to Joe Pa's legacy coaching Penn State football.

I can't say with certainty how far reaching that cover-up was, but there were sure some curious lapses of judgement when it came to the university heads, Paterno and his staff, and the local law enforcement, and Pennsylvania and local government officials. We may never know the full truth, but where there's smoke, there's fire.

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PostSubject: Re: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State   "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State - Page 2 EmptyWed Jul 25, 2012 2:32 pm

@stlrtruck wrote:
In another unprecedented move, many of the football players have opted to stay at Penn State with their new head coach and begin to rebuild the program.

One player stated, "One man did not build this legacy, and one man will not tear it down. We will build our own legacy!"

I give the players credit for sticking to their convictions. These guys weren't at fault and they are standing on their own to fit in a move of solidarity, when they had a chance to go to another program where they could contend for a conference championship/national title.


Good for them! I have no beef with students and athletes wanting to rebuild the reputation and programs at Penn State. It will take a lot of hard work, dedication and perseverance to overcome this stain. They have their work cut out for them and I wish them success in that endeavor. Kudos to any of the students and athletes at Penn State who are willing to accept the punishments handed down and face this rebuilding process head-on. It takes a lot of guts and sacrifice to do that.

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