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 Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?

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BKAnthem



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PostSubject: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:53 pm



This is getting ridiculous...
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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:11 pm

The problem isn't just with the secondary ... we have no pass rush. If you give any NFL QB (even a backup) all day to throw, he'll eventually find an open receiver. It doesn't matter who we have in the secondary if we can't put pressure on the quarterback.

Like many others, I'm really hoping that we're just seeing an extremely vanilla defense, and Butler will unleash (dare I say it?) hell when the season starts.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:18 pm

just another cycle of a Steelers defenseive team that got old and the replacement of young unproven players.

if the Steelers have a bad season then they can draft high enough to get a shut down corner in the first round.

imo Butler is showing nothing about his defense in this preseason some of the players in that game won't be on the team after Tuesday.




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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:21 pm

the Steelers' defensive philosophy is that it's more important to have good pass rushers pressuring the QB than it is to have good cover guys.

I understand their philosophy, no matter how good your defensive backs are you're not going to be able to cover their receivers forever.

where I disagree somewhat from the Steelers is that I believe the two go hand-in-hand. because our defensive secondary has been neglected for so long now the other teams' receivers are so wide open so quickly that our pass rushers also don't have enough time to get there.

then go ahead and add in the fact that not all of the the premier picks we've spent and invested on our defensive front 7 have paid the dividends we might have expected and we get the defensive mess we witnessed against the Bills.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:39 pm

They TRADED for a good corner. TRADED. That never freaking happens in the NFL let alone with the Steelers. And drafted one in the second round, after all the first rounders were gone at their pick.  

They're trying.  The secondary still sucks but it's not being ignored anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:45 pm

@Hawaii 5-0 wrote:
the Steelers' defensive philosophy is that it's more important to have good pass rushers pressuring the QB than it is to have good cover guys.

I understand their philosophy, no matter how good your defensive backs are you're not going to be able to cover their receivers forever.

where I disagree somewhat from the Steelers is that I believe the two go hand-in-hand. because our defensive secondary has been neglected for so long now the other teams' receivers are so wide open so quickly that our pass rushers also don't have enough time to get there.

then go ahead and add in the fact that not all of the the premier picks we've spent and invested on our defensive front 7 have paid the dividends we might have expected and we get the defensive mess we witnessed against the Bills.

and the last couple of years the Steelers were drafting Butler / Tomlin defensive type players not Dick LeBeau type of players. I think the J. Jones pick was kinda of a we lost Woodley to soon pick. I also think under Butler / Tomlin defense will turn into more of a 4-3 defense with 4 DLmen a smaller but faster LB corp.

it is going to be a rough couple of years for the Steelers defense no question.

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effyou515



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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:50 pm

@PhantomJB93 wrote:
They TRADED for a good corner. TRADED.  That never freaking happens in the NFL let alone with the Steelers. And drafted one in the second round, after all the first rounders were gone at their pick.  

They're trying.  The secondary still sucks but it's not being ignored anymore.

I got high hopes that Doran Grant will turn out to be a very good DB NFL DB.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:50 pm

@Wallace108 wrote:
The problem isn't just with the secondary ... we have no pass rush. If you give any NFL QB (even a backup) all day to throw, he'll eventually find an open receiver. It doesn't matter who we have in the secondary if we can't put pressure on the quarterback.

Like many others, I'm really hoping that we're just seeing an extremely vanilla defense, and Butler will unleash (dare I say it?) hell when the season starts.

We are seeing basic defensive playcalling. Keith isn't going to start calling more elaborate blitzs until the regular season begins.

Many of the starters never give their all during the preseason.

The Steelers are working on the secondary by drafting players and even trading for a corner.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:51 pm

I think Doran Grant might surprise people.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:59 pm

Its preseason. More about evaluation than wins.

Boykin, Allen, Gay, Blake, Grant will all be fine as CB's. Harrison, Moats can get pass rush, with blitzes by Shazier, Timmons, etc.

I really question if Shamarko Thomas will be a liability and if Mike Mitchell can be healthy. Otherwise, it would look like we should have drafted Calvin Pryor last year instead of Shazier as Safety was a bigger question mark than ILB. IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:14 pm

@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
Its preseason.  More about evaluation than wins.

Boykin, Allen, Gay, Blake, Grant will all be fine as CB's.  Harrison, Moats can get pass rush, with blitzes by Shazier, Timmons, etc.

I really question if Shamarko Thomas will be a liability and if Mike Mitchell can be healthy.  Otherwise, it would look like we should have drafted Calvin Pryor last year instead of Shazier as Safety was a bigger question mark than ILB.  IMO.

I think Shamarko will will be fine I think he'll be the John Lynch of the Safeties or keep the Steelers the Donnie Shell of the Safeties.

with Shazier speed and Shamarko hitting abilty they will work together just fine. this new defense the Steelers are installing has its root from the 70s.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:18 pm

@effyou515 wrote:
@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
Its preseason.  More about evaluation than wins.

Boykin, Allen, Gay, Blake, Grant will all be fine as CB's.  Harrison, Moats can get pass rush, with blitzes by Shazier, Timmons, etc.

I really question if Shamarko Thomas will be a liability and if Mike Mitchell can be healthy.  Otherwise, it would look like we should have drafted Calvin Pryor last year instead of Shazier as Safety was a bigger question mark than ILB.  IMO.

I think Shamarko will will be fine I think he'll be the John Lynch of the Safeties or keep the Steelers the Donnie Shell of the Safeties.
I don't think he has the talent of John lynch or donnie shell. He is just a guy. A mid-round safety.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:25 pm

@tony hipchest wrote:
@effyou515 wrote:
@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
Its preseason.  More about evaluation than wins.

Boykin, Allen, Gay, Blake, Grant will all be fine as CB's.  Harrison, Moats can get pass rush, with blitzes by Shazier, Timmons, etc.

I really question if Shamarko Thomas will be a liability and if Mike Mitchell can be healthy.  Otherwise, it would look like we should have drafted Calvin Pryor last year instead of Shazier as Safety was a bigger question mark than ILB.  IMO.

I think Shamarko will will be fine I think he'll be the John Lynch of the Safeties or keep the Steelers the Donnie Shell of the Safeties.
I don't think he has the talent of John lynch or donnie shell. He is just a guy. A mid-round safety.

if I'm not mistaken Lynch and Shell were mid round draft pick ups.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:57 pm

@effyou515 wrote:
@tony hipchest wrote:
@effyou515 wrote:
@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
Its preseason.  More about evaluation than wins.

Boykin, Allen, Gay, Blake, Grant will all be fine as CB's.  Harrison, Moats can get pass rush, with blitzes by Shazier, Timmons, etc.

I really question if Shamarko Thomas will be a liability and if Mike Mitchell can be healthy.  Otherwise, it would look like we should have drafted Calvin Pryor last year instead of Shazier as Safety was a bigger question mark than ILB.  IMO.

I think Shamarko will will be fine I think he'll be the John Lynch of the Safeties or keep the Steelers the Donnie Shell of the Safeties.
I don't think he has the talent of John lynch or donnie shell. He is just a guy. A mid-round safety.

if I'm not mistaken Lynch and Shell were mid round draft pick ups.
and they are both borderline Hall of Famers. I see nothing from shamarko Thomas that suggest he is embarking on a potential Hall of Fame career. I just hope he can be a good solid safety for the next few years.

If we are really lucky he might be the next Ryan Clark or Carnel lake.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:13 am

@tony hipchest wrote:
@effyou515 wrote:
@tony hipchest wrote:
@effyou515 wrote:
@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
Its preseason.  More about evaluation than wins.

Boykin, Allen, Gay, Blake, Grant will all be fine as CB's.  Harrison, Moats can get pass rush, with blitzes by Shazier, Timmons, etc.

I really question if Shamarko Thomas will be a liability and if Mike Mitchell can be healthy.  Otherwise, it would look like we should have drafted Calvin Pryor last year instead of Shazier as Safety was a bigger question mark than ILB.  IMO.

I think Shamarko will will be fine I think he'll be the John Lynch of the Safeties or keep the Steelers the Donnie Shell of the Safeties.
I don't think he has the talent of John lynch or donnie shell. He is just a guy. A mid-round safety.

if I'm not mistaken Lynch and Shell were mid round draft pick ups.
and they are both borderline Hall of Famers. I see nothing from shamarko Thomas that suggest he is embarking on a potential Hall of Fame career. I just hope he can be a good solid safety for the next few years.

If we are really lucky he might be the next Ryan Clark or Carnel lake.  

a lot of people didn't think Lynch or Shell were damn good Safeties so don't feel bad.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:42 am

@tony hipchest wrote:
@effyou515 wrote:
@tony hipchest wrote:
@effyou515 wrote:
@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
Its preseason.  More about evaluation than wins.

Boykin, Allen, Gay, Blake, Grant will all be fine as CB's.  Harrison, Moats can get pass rush, with blitzes by Shazier, Timmons, etc.

I really question if Shamarko Thomas will be a liability and if Mike Mitchell can be healthy.  Otherwise, it would look like we should have drafted Calvin Pryor last year instead of Shazier as Safety was a bigger question mark than ILB.  IMO.

I think Shamarko will will be fine I think he'll be the John Lynch of the Safeties or keep the Steelers the Donnie Shell of the Safeties.
I don't think he has the talent of John lynch or donnie shell. He is just a guy. A mid-round safety.

if I'm not mistaken Lynch and Shell were mid round draft pick ups.
and they are both borderline Hall of Famers. I see nothing from shamarko Thomas that suggest he is embarking on a potential Hall of Fame career. I just hope he can be a good solid safety for the next few years.

If we are really lucky he might be the next Ryan Clark or Carnel lake.  

Yeah, I always thought Mitchell was another Raider reach that had 1 year of decent performance in Carolina. I hope he proves me wrong this year, but still haven't seen him play healthy, allegedly.

Shamarko too hasn't been able to stay healthy and looks lost in the secondary the time he has been healthy so far. Letting Clay go for a TD because he made the wrong read wasn't stellar. I would not be surprised if the Steelers scan the waiver wire after final cuts for safety help.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:19 am

We should have looked at the guy the Texans cut and then resigned. His name escapes me right now, but he was on the free agent market for a long time and was highlighted doing very well on hard knocks.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:44 am

@tony hipchest wrote:
We should have looked at the guy the Texans cut and then resigned.  His name escapes me right now, but he was on the free agent market for a long time and was highlighted doing very well on hard knocks.

Quentin Demps? Stevie Brown?
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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:04 am

yeah, demps. although im not sure whos worth cutting to have signed him. i just hope shamarko can stay healthy and log some game time.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:00 am

@tony hipchest wrote:
yeah, demps.  although im not sure whos worth cutting to have signed him.  i just hope shamarko can stay healthy and log some game time.

Yeah, I think they already invested in Mitchell and hope he proves me wrong by being productive. Something tells me that Calvin Pryor is gonna solidify the safety position for the Jets and I thought he was BPA when we drafted Shazier.....time will tell.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:30 pm

I'll wait until the the season is underway to decide if the secondary isn't any good. The preseason is no place to make that determination.

I definitely don't think it's a case of Colbert not addressing the position. Cortez Allen has great talent and performed very well as a backup. Unfortunately, he sh!t the bed when they gave him a starting position, but hopefully can turn it around. Colbert also brought in Boykin, who should do very well. I liked him coming out of Georgia and had hoped he would have been a Steeler back then. Then they draft 2 guys this year.

Mitchell doesn't suck. I believe he's still trying to recover from that surgery as I've heard that is a very long recovery (so who knows if his lack of playing time is due to an ankle or is it the original groin surgery?). Thomas should be a playmaker. He probably has to spend some time actually in the lineup to get up to speed. I don't see them picking up another safety right now. They still have Allen as a quality backup in case either of those guys don't come through.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:02 pm

2nd round pick - CB
4th round pick - CB
7th round pick - S
FA pickup - CB

I think they're trying, but like anything you don't always see results immediately after. It's not fair to say they're not attempting to address the issue.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:20 pm

Look at Mitchell's career numbers and you will see that his best statistical tackling year was last season. He didn't have as many INT's or defended passes as the year before in Carolina, which was his only decent year since he was a 2nd round pick by the Raiders.

Of the 4 picks he got in Carolina, I found video of 2 of them and one is a Carson Palmer overthrow, the other is a Mike Glennon hail mary under pressure. Not exactly the best ball skills I have seen that warrant a 5 year $25million payday he got.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000290449/Mike-Mitchell-deep-ball-interception

http://www.panthers.com/media-vault/videos/Mike-Mitchell-Interception/61059b17-9ec8-44c5-b340-3aaee6125b88

I hope he has a breakout year, but nothing in his past suggests that he will be much more than an adequate role player IMO. I think he is just another guy that had a great Pro Day and the Raiders reached for him. Steelers enamoured with his "potential" which in the words of Bill Parcells.........."is a fancy French word that means you aint done anything yet".
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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:03 pm

@PhantomJB93 wrote:
They TRADED for a good corner. TRADED.  That never freaking happens in the NFL let alone with the Steelers. And drafted one in the second round, after all the first rounders were gone at their pick.  

They're trying.  The secondary still sucks but it's not being ignored anymore.

yes, the Steelers finally realized they needed to do something about their terrible secondary they had neglected for so long.

let's take a look at the Steelers' five previous draft classes and you tell me if the secondary was a priority:

2014 - Rd 5 Shaquille Richardson CB

2013 - Rd 4 Shamarko Thomas SS
Rd 5 Terry Hawthorne CB

2012 - Rd 7 Terrence Frederick CB

2011 - Rd 3 Curtis Brown CB
Rd 4 Cortez Allen CB

2010 - Rd 5 Crezdon Butler CB
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PostSubject: Re: Why Does Mr Colbert Seem to think that you can win in a passing league without a Secondary?   Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:44 pm

@Hawaii 5-0 wrote:
@PhantomJB93 wrote:
They TRADED for a good corner. TRADED.  That never freaking happens in the NFL let alone with the Steelers. And drafted one in the second round, after all the first rounders were gone at their pick.  

They're trying.  The secondary still sucks but it's not being ignored anymore.

yes, the Steelers finally realized they needed to do something about their terrible secondary they had neglected for so long.

let's take a look at the Steelers' five previous draft classes and you tell me if the secondary was a priority:

2014 - Rd 5 Shaquille Richardson CB

2013 - Rd 4 Shamarko Thomas SS
         Rd 5 Terry Hawthorne CB

2012 - Rd 7 Terrence Frederick CB

2011 - Rd 3 Curtis Brown CB
         Rd 4 Cortez Allen CB

2010 - Rd 5 Crezdon Butler CB

I'm actually really not sure what point you were trying to get across. It sounds like you were being sarcastic and trying to say they've been addressing it, but spending 1 pick before the 4th round in 5 drafts is in no way addressing the problem. It doesn't matter how many of them you put into the secondary, you can't expect guys from the 4th round onward to become anything more than solid backup and ST players.

If I misread that and you were trying to point out how little they've addressed it, then I agree.
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