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 Dallas fans start petition for Cowboys to sign Manziel

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FanSince72

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PostSubject: Re: Dallas fans start petition for Cowboys to sign Manziel    Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:22 pm

@Buddha Bus wrote:
@FanSince72 wrote:
Manziel is more to be pitied than censured.

He's an alcoholic plain and simple.
He's in denial and he has yet to recognize, much less accept, that his life has become unmanageable.

He has yet to hit bottom and until he does, nothing is going to change and in fact it's quite likely that things will get even worse.  He's surrounded himself with enablers (which is typical), his ego is through the roof while his self-esteem is in the basement (also typical) and he needs to reverse that.

It's likely that he realizes all of this on some level but is as yet unable to accept that things are falling apart or perhaps even to believe that they are or that they could.

I think he's aware enough to know that he needs to make changes and I hope that he does before it's too late.



Sorry, but I don't pity overprivileged assholes who find it okay to hit/restrain women, rub their wealth in people's faces, and generally act as though the rest of humanity is beneath them and to be toyed with for their amusement. Plain and simple, this guy acts as though the rules of society don't apply to him and that he's above it all. He's a raging douche bag. He's had life handed to him on a silver platter from birth and chooses to just piss it all away. Thanks, but I'll save my pity for someone more deserving of it.

I can see why you might think that way but I can tell you from experience that there are far more addictive personalities out there who haven't a pot to piss in who behave in the same way.

The "privilege" component often makes it worse and harder to deal with but it is by no means the reason.
The hallmark of addictive behavior is high ego and low self-esteem and that can affect anyone from any social or economic level.  To the casual observer having a big ego along with a sense of worthlessness may seem counter-intuitive at first, but upon closer inspection it reveals a person at war with themselves fighting between alternating feelings of superiority and self-loathing.  This is because on the one hand they feel as if they have the talent or the charisma or the intelligence to do anything while on the other hand they feel intensely self-conscious and often unworthy of praise and such feelings manifest in many ways - often violently.

Of course that doesn't absolve aberrant behavior but it can explain it.
That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be consequences for what they do - a person "under the influence" may not be responsible for their behavior but they are accountable for it.

I think a lot of people would be surprised at just how much an untreated addiction or addictive personality can adversely affect a person's behavior to the point of taking an otherwise "nice guy" and turning him into an anti-social menace - none of which has anything to do with their bank account or how silver any platters may be.  People in Manziel's situation are engaged in an escalating internal war that's very similar to the "Good Angel/Bad Angel" conflict we see in things like sitcoms when a character is trying to decide between doing something that will satisfy themselves and possibly hurt others versus doing something that denies them gratification and considers the feelings of others.  Unfortunately the people around him are forced to deal with the fallout of this war.

The "pity" I mentioned isn't for the person Manziel is now, but rather for the person he could be if he dealt with his addiction.
If he can enter a phase of true recovery, I'd bet that we'd see a significantly different person emerge.

But that recovery has to be real and sincere.
Recovery is not something that has a time frame like these 30-day "rehab" vacations many celebrities are fond of.
One does not recover from addiction in the way that one recovers from knee surgery - there is no point at which one is declared cured.
Recovery is a day-to-day, life-long process that requires commitment, perseverance and a genuine desire for change.

But the only way that works is for someone to first "hit bottom" and I'm not sure if Manziel has reached that point yet (though I think he's getting close).
But when he does, I think he has a shot at becoming not just sober, but a better person as well and I hope he can do that before it's too late.

We'll see...

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Atlanta Dan



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PostSubject: Re: Dallas fans start petition for Cowboys to sign Manziel    Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:45 pm

@FanSince72 wrote:

But the only way that works is for someone to first "hit bottom" and I'm not sure if Manziel has reached that point yet (though I think he's getting close).

If you have not hit bottom it is coming up fast when you have reached the point you are getting advice from this source



http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/charlie-sheen-johnny-manziel-twitter-cleveland-browns-020616[/quote]
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FanSince72

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PostSubject: Re: Dallas fans start petition for Cowboys to sign Manziel    Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:05 pm

@Atlanta Dan wrote:
@FanSince72 wrote:
@Buddha Bus wrote:

But the only way that works is for someone to first "hit bottom" and I'm not sure if Manziel has reached that point yet (though I think he's getting close).

If you have not hit bottom it is coming up fast when you have reached the point you are getting advice from this source



http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/charlie-sheen-johnny-manziel-twitter-cleveland-browns-020616

Hey, even Charlie Sheen has a bottom.

I think Manziel is getting close because his latest round of behavioral irregularity comes on the heels of Dallas declining to consider him as a QB for their team.

I think Manziel has always wanted to play for Dallas because in his mind it completes a "Texas Hero" image he's had of himself going back to Texas A&M along with the fact that he was born in Tyler. I think he may have even intentionally under-performed in Cleveland so that they would be forced to let him go so that he could go to Dallas and be their savior. I know how ridiculous that sounds but in the mind of someone in the throes of addiction it's a lot more real that you might think.
I suppose Houston could be a sort of Plan-B but Houston doesn't seem interested either.

I think this may be a turning point for him and he's either going to get worse because of some perceived slight or it may serve as a much needed dose of reality that may help him focus.

Time will tell.

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Buddha Bus

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PostSubject: Re: Dallas fans start petition for Cowboys to sign Manziel    Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:32 pm

@FanSince72 wrote:
@Buddha Bus wrote:
@FanSince72 wrote:
Manziel is more to be pitied than censured.

He's an alcoholic plain and simple.
He's in denial and he has yet to recognize, much less accept, that his life has become unmanageable.

He has yet to hit bottom and until he does, nothing is going to change and in fact it's quite likely that things will get even worse.  He's surrounded himself with enablers (which is typical), his ego is through the roof while his self-esteem is in the basement (also typical) and he needs to reverse that.

It's likely that he realizes all of this on some level but is as yet unable to accept that things are falling apart or perhaps even to believe that they are or that they could.

I think he's aware enough to know that he needs to make changes and I hope that he does before it's too late.



Sorry, but I don't pity overprivileged assholes who find it okay to hit/restrain women, rub their wealth in people's faces, and generally act as though the rest of humanity is beneath them and to be toyed with for their amusement. Plain and simple, this guy acts as though the rules of society don't apply to him and that he's above it all. He's a raging douche bag. He's had life handed to him on a silver platter from birth and chooses to just piss it all away. Thanks, but I'll save my pity for someone more deserving of it.

I can see why you might think that way but I can tell you from experience that there are far more addictive personalities out there who haven't a pot to piss in who behave in the same way.

The "privilege" component often makes it worse and harder to deal with but it is by no means the reason.
The hallmark of addictive behavior is high ego and low self-esteem and that can affect anyone from any social or economic level.  To the casual observer having a big ego along with a sense of worthlessness may seem counter-intuitive at first, but upon closer inspection it reveals a person at war with themselves fighting between alternating feelings of superiority and self-loathing.  This is because on the one hand they feel as if they have the talent or the charisma or the intelligence to do anything while on the other hand they feel intensely self-conscious and often unworthy of praise and such feelings manifest in many ways - often violently.

Of course that doesn't absolve aberrant behavior but it can explain it.
That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be consequences for what they do - a person "under the influence" may not be responsible for their behavior but they are accountable for it.

I think a lot of people would be surprised at just how much an untreated addiction or addictive personality can adversely affect a person's behavior to the point of taking an otherwise "nice guy" and turning him into an anti-social menace - none of which has anything to do with their bank account or how silver any platters may be.  People in Manziel's situation are engaged in an escalating internal war that's very similar to the "Good Angel/Bad Angel" conflict we see in things like sitcoms when a character is trying to decide between doing something that will satisfy themselves and possibly hurt others versus doing something that denies them gratification and considers the feelings of others.  Unfortunately the people around him are forced to deal with the fallout of this war.

The "pity" I mentioned isn't for the person Manziel is now, but rather for the person he could be if he dealt with his addiction.
If he can enter a phase of true recovery, I'd bet that we'd see a significantly different person emerge.

But that recovery has to be real and sincere.
Recovery is not something that has a time frame like these 30-day "rehab" vacations many celebrities are fond of.
One does not recover from addiction in the way that one recovers from knee surgery - there is no point at which one is declared cured.
Recovery is a day-to-day, life-long process that requires commitment, perseverance and a genuine desire for change.

But the only way that works is for someone to first "hit bottom" and I'm not sure if Manziel has reached that point yet (though I think he's getting close).
But when he does, I think he has a shot at becoming not just sober, but a better person as well and I hope he can do that before it's too late.

We'll see...

I see what you're saying, but I wouldn't give my pity to a poor person who acted as Manziel does either. The fact that he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth just exacerbates the hate people feel for him. He has it all and always has, but when he rubs it in the faces of others who don't have his money and opportunities while simultaneously flushing it all down the toilet in a very public and careless fashion, it just breeds contempt for him. Pity is not one of the first 50,000 words that come to mind when I hear the name Johnny Manziel.

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PostSubject: Re: Dallas fans start petition for Cowboys to sign Manziel    Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:06 pm

Excuses, excuses.

You reap what you sow.
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FanSince72

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PostSubject: Re: Dallas fans start petition for Cowboys to sign Manziel    Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:59 pm

@Buddha Bus wrote:


I see what you're saying, but I wouldn't give my pity to a poor person who acted as Manziel does either. The fact that he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth just exacerbates the hate people feel for him. He has it all and always has, but when he rubs it in the faces of others who don't have his money and opportunities while simultaneously flushing it all down the toilet in a very public and careless fashion, it just breeds contempt for him. Pity is not one of the first 50,000 words that come to mind when I hear the name Johnny Manziel.

I can certainly understand the contempt and on the surface it does indeed seem as if his arrogance and hubris is something he chooses to display and to some extent that too may even be true.

But no one chooses addiction.
There also is not an addict in the world who, while in the process of "writing their story", will admit that there's any sort of problem and in many cases the arrogance and flippant attitude they display is more of a defensive shield than anything else.  Showing off their wealth or their contempt or engaging in flamboyant behavior is often their way of showing the world that they're actually in control of their life and that what they do is either intentional or at least considered.

But in fact the opposite is usually the reality and their inflated ego won't allow them to admit to a problem or to seem flawed in the eyes of others because the root of it all - their low self-esteem - is what they're trying to mask in the first place.  

It's a Yin-Yang thing that has no balance point and just swings from one extreme to the other until something happens to stop it.

Maybe "pity" is a word that people can't apply to someone like Manziel but I use it more in the sense of feeling sad for someone caught in the throes of addiction knowing that unless they come to grips with it there's nowhere to go but down.

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