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 Steelers' Villanueva critical of QB Kaepernick's decision to sit during national anthem

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dave n'at
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PostSubject: Re: Steelers' Villanueva critical of QB Kaepernick's decision to sit during national anthem   Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:35 am

@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
@dave n'at wrote:

I wasn't really including you in this scenario since you really didn't post much in the way of what I was referring to. In fact, I actually was rather moved by the story you did post about the kid sitting by himself at lunch. But dudes like Iowa? I'd bet the farm on his Trump loyalty.

Well better get me the deed to your farm, because I'm not a Trump supporter. I hate Hillary, and I hate Trump. I am a firm Independent and I'll likely be writing someone in on my ballot. Any more asinine assumptions about me that I can address?

Nah, you're doing a good enough job of painting yourself pretty much exactly how you are. Feel free to ban me, fucko. Been following this group of posters since back in the Trib-Live board days, and this forum is by far the worst iteration.





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PostSubject: Re: Steelers' Villanueva critical of QB Kaepernick's decision to sit during national anthem   Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:38 am

Read a story this morning (nope don't have the link right now), where Kape was going to donate $1M towards local charities this year.

It's a start and with his name in the news now (and not for football), it's an opportunity to not just make a statement on what's wrong but work at fixing it too.

My hats off to Kape for finally doing something more for the situation.

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers' Villanueva critical of QB Kaepernick's decision to sit during national anthem   Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:45 am

@BKAnthem wrote:
@kirklandrules wrote:
@BKAnthem wrote:
@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
Black people commit crimes at a higher rate than any other ethnicity, I would never judge the entirety of their community based on the actions of the few but I'm sick and damn tired of hearing people call the police murderers, claiming that they're out there just shooting unarmed people willy nilly. That's a crock of crap, and the people making these claims are people that haven't walked a single day in the shoes of a police officer and have no understanding of what it is that that job entails. If you did then you'd understand that those of us who comprise the thin blue line, don't take kindly to rotten apples amongst our ranks, and you'd understand that just like any other profession out there, that unfortunately, rotten apples find a way in. We're all for prosecuting them but calling cops murderers, and saying "Black Lives Matter" as if they're more important than any other life is just beyond ludicrous. Look at all these landmark shootings that have spurred on this whole "movement". Michael Brown assaulted a store owner, assaulted and attempted to disarm a police officer, and ended up shot. Witnesses blatantly lied on Michael Brown's behalf saying he had his hands up saying "don't shoot" which was proven to be a lie. The officer was battered, and he was judged guilty and raked through the coals nationally by a media and public that denied him his constitutional rights to due process and ruined his life and career. Nobody cared about the facts though, the facts came out, and all these people incensed to hate the police just waited for another shooting to happen so they could carry on the negative narrative.

These impoverished communities need to stand up, accept accountability for their mistakes, and work to improve themselves so the police don't have to intervene when their kids join gangs and get involved in criminal activities. It's not the police's fault when people make the decision to become criminals. They're not racist, they're not out targeting any specific race, they're out targeting crime and it just so happens that crime is the highest within the black community. These problems need to be attacked at the roots, as it sits, people don't want to accept that, they just want to scapegoat the police. That's not to say the police don't mess up, because they do, but the problems with the police are few and far between compared to the problems at large with the black community, in particular the most impoverished communities nationwide. People want to generalize the police for a handful of questionable shootings, but when 60 people get shot as a result of gang violence in Chicago in one weekend... Nobody says a thing. These same protesters, who are crying "Black Lives Matter" were nowhere to be found when Louisiana was hit with horrendous flooding, but the police were out there saving lives and putting themselves on the line... The police stood in front of, and protected protesters from the shooter in Dallas despite the fact these very same people were the ones defaming them.

Either way, I just get sick of hearing this stuff. Day in and day out, good officers getting killed because of this negative narrative that has gone way, way too far. People are acting like it's 1950 and we have institutional segregation going on... I'm sick of being called a racist myself simply because I'm white and I have to tell people "no" in my career field. I'm the furthest thing from racist, my family is ridiculously diverse, and the group of friends and I hang out with and talk to are diverse just the same. Color of skin means nothing to me outside of these stupid political debates where you're forced to bring it up. To me race is a label, one that only creates division among people. We're all human beings, that's all that should matter.

As for Kaepernick, stand for the National Anthem and respect the flag and your country, and the people that have fought for it. If you want to protest do it on your own time instead of using your team and the league as a medium to push your agenda down everyone else's throats. You can go and stand for a cause in a respectable way, without being disrespectful to your country.


Had to check and make sure i wasn't on a storm front or KKK website after reading this BS, But you are from Iowa so ( see what i did there?) :

A 2011 study which examined violent crime trends between 1980 and 2008 found that racial imbalances between arrest and incarceration levels were both small and comparably sized across the study period. The authors argued that the prior studies had been confounded by not separating Hispanics from Whites.[29] Another recent study in 2012 raises a different concern, showing that Hispanics and blacks receive considerably longer sentences for the same or lesser offenses on average than white offenders with equal or greater criminal records.[30][31]

A 2012 University of Michigan Law School study found that African Americans are given longer federal sentences even when factoring prior criminal records, and that African American jail sentences tend to be roughly 10% longer than white jail sentences for the same crimes.[32] The study found that Federal Prosecutors of African American and Hispanic defendants are almost twice as likely to push for mandatory minimum sentences, leading to longer sentences and disparities in incarceration rates for federal offenses.[33]

Ref:

"The Imprisonment Penalty for Young Black and Hispanic Males". Jrc.sagepub.com. 2011-05-03. Retrieved 2013-08-15.

"Racial disparity in the wake of Booker/Fanfan Making sense of "messy" results and other challenges for sentencing research - Engen - 2011 - Criminology & Public Policy - Wiley Online Library".

"Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences". Papers.ssrn.com. Retrieved 8 October 2014.

Rehavi and Starr (2012) "Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences" Working Paper Series, no. 12-002 (Univ. of Michigan Law & Economics, Empirical Legal Studies Center)


In a Nutshell....Same Crime...Different Time


And if your going in on old boy....where is the outrage over Bryton Mellott?  Not one person here (including you)  crucifying Kapernick mentioned him...smdh

BK, I don't disagree with the evidence you present nor with the idea that there's prejudice in the system, however, I don't think your analysis was in line with Iowa's post. You're slamming him for his ideas by providing evidence in a separate category from which Iowa speaks to. Incarceration rates compared to arrest rates isn't in his topic. You might want to provide evidence that shows crime rates by demographic, that will help get your argument in line with his post.

I'm not sure why you think people would reference Mellott as an example in line with Kaepernick. Mellott is a nobody nut who got 5 mins of fame (although not widespread fame because he was really a nobody) for burning the flag and posting pics of it online. The guy has more than a few loose screws, thought he could post his pics of flag burning on Facebook and hide behind the 1st amendment ... but was arrested anyways. Kaepernick was a semi successful QB who took his team to the SB and decided to use his fame to protest against something that is recently dear to him. There are some responders to this thread that think his protest is ill-directed and shows a lack of thought.

And for those trying to keep a tic sheet: I'm disgusted with both Trump and Hillary, somehow that matters in this thread?

It is in line if you consider a black person will more than likely end up with a criminal conviction and a white person won't for committing the same crime....padding these crime stats he's referring to that are committed by blacks over any other ethnicity.

It isn't in line with his argument. He's inferring that as a % African Americans are more likely to have an interaction with police than other races and, therefore, have a higher likelihood of being shot. Your argument of convictions and sentences (which I agree with, BTW) is not the same topic because it's a matter of prejudice in the court system and well past the point a cop might shoot a suspect. He said: Black people commit crimes at a higher rate than any other ethnicity, I would never judge the entirety of their community based on the actions of the few but I'm sick and damn tired of hearing people call the police murderers, claiming that they're out there just shooting unarmed people willy nilly.

You're calling him a racist for that comment and I'm trying to help get your argument back to where a cop has a decision to shoot. What a judge, DA and a handful of attorneys do after that isn't the point.

@BKAnthem wrote:
Mellot Burned a Flag and got not even half the outrage Colin is getting for his silent protest which hurts no one and damages nothing.

But my point is that millions of people know who Kaepernick is and his decision to protest the anthem is more widely covered. You're surprised people weren't up in arms over the actions of a nobody, who most people don't know by name or face. He's just another loon who wants attention and decides to do it by burning the American flag. This is a Steelers site with plenty of people interested in football and the guys playing the game. Who gives a sh!t about Mellot? O.k. fine, I think Mellot's actions are disgusting, but the Supreme Court says it's his 1st amendment right, until the police and the DA decided his actions present a danger to himself (and the police warning him he's putting himself and others in danger). Don't be surprised that an entertainer, who has millions of people watching, get more attention than some unknown nut case.

@BKAnthem wrote:
I also disagree with your lack of thought comment, he thought it was in his constitutional protected right to protest something he felt was wrong..the only lack of thought i see are people quick to call him the N word and disrespectful for it...

My lack of thought comment has nothing to do with his constitutionally protected right. I've said it in a prior post: The beauty of the the 1st amendment is that he has the right to make his protest. And I have a right to say he's an overpaid, sh!tty QB who is coming off as a dumb-ass. My point of the lack of thought comment is that if he's looking to protest against cops shooting minorities, sitting during the National Anthem isn't that bright. He's detracting from what he's attempting to call attention to. Look at the posts in this thread alone. There's just as much chatter about the disregard to our service members as there has been about police shootings. I don't think Kaepernick was looking to sh!t on our military members, therefore, his message didn't hit the right target. Hence, his protest lacked thought.
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IowaSteeler927

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers' Villanueva critical of QB Kaepernick's decision to sit during national anthem   Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:48 am

@dave n'at wrote:
@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
@dave n'at wrote:

I wasn't really including you in this scenario since you really didn't post much in the way of what I was referring to. In fact, I actually was rather moved by the story you did post about the kid sitting by himself at lunch. But dudes like Iowa? I'd bet the farm on his Trump loyalty.

Well better get me the deed to your farm, because I'm not a Trump supporter. I hate Hillary, and I hate Trump. I am a firm Independent and I'll likely be writing someone in on my ballot. Any more asinine assumptions about me that I can address?

Nah, you're doing a good enough job of painting yourself pretty much exactly how you are. Feel free to ban me, fucko. Been following this group of posters since back in the Trib-Live board days, and this forum is by far the worst iteration.





Wow, how very mature of you. Never said one thing insulting, you make a rude assumption because you disagree with my opinion, and then namecall. All the hallmarks of an intelligent adult... Bye Felicia. The forum doesn't need people like you anyways.

I said the black community needs to come together to fix crime problems... That's not racist, not in the least. If I said the same thing about whites you wouldn't of even batted an eye. I love all peoples, race, ethnicity, culture, or creed are labels to me. I have an opinion, one based in extensive personal experience, if anyone else would want to discuss my opinion please do so in a respectful manner. I'm more than happy to elaborate if something comes across the wrong way. But I will not put up with being insulted, having my home of Iowa insulted, or being associated with awful hate groups such as Stormfront or the KKK.

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers' Villanueva critical of QB Kaepernick's decision to sit during national anthem   Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:15 pm

@BKAnthem wrote:

Had to check and make sure i wasn't on a storm front or KKK website after reading this BS, But you are from Iowa so ( see what i did there?) :

A 2011 study which examined violent crime trends between 1980 and 2008 found that racial imbalances between arrest and incarceration levels were both small and comparably sized across the study period. The authors argued that the prior studies had been confounded by not separating Hispanics from Whites.[29] Another recent study in 2012 raises a different concern, showing that Hispanics and blacks receive considerably longer sentences for the same or lesser offenses on average than white offenders with equal or greater criminal records.[30][31]

A 2012 University of Michigan Law School study found that African Americans are given longer federal sentences even when factoring prior criminal records, and that African American jail sentences tend to be roughly 10% longer than white jail sentences for the same crimes.[32] The study found that Federal Prosecutors of African American and Hispanic defendants are almost twice as likely to push for mandatory minimum sentences, leading to longer sentences and disparities in incarceration rates for federal offenses.[33]

Ref:

"The Imprisonment Penalty for Young Black and Hispanic Males". Jrc.sagepub.com. 2011-05-03. Retrieved 2013-08-15.

"Racial disparity in the wake of Booker/Fanfan Making sense of "messy" results and other challenges for sentencing research - Engen - 2011 - Criminology & Public Policy - Wiley Online Library".

"Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences". Papers.ssrn.com. Retrieved 8 October 2014.

Rehavi and Starr (2012) "Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences" Working Paper Series, no. 12-002 (Univ. of Michigan Law & Economics, Empirical Legal Studies Center)


In a Nutshell....Same Crime...Different Time


And if your going in on old boy....where is the outrage over Bryton Mellott?  Not one person here (including you)  crucifying Kapernick mentioned him...smdh

I suppose it all depends which database you want to work with  - this from today's New York Times

Dearborn County represents the new boom in American prisons: mostly white, rural and politically conservative.

A bipartisan campaign to reduce mass incarceration has led to enormous declines in new inmates from big cities, cutting America’s prison population for the first time since the 1970s. From 2006 to 2014, annual prison admissions dropped 36 percent in Indianapolis; 37 percent in Brooklyn; 69 percent in Los Angeles County; and 93 percent in San Francisco.

But large parts of rural and suburban America — overwhelmed by the heroin epidemic and concerned about the safety of diverting people from prison — have gone the opposite direction. Prison admissions in counties with fewer than 100,000 people have risen even as crime has fallen, according to a New York Times analysis, which offers a newly detailed look at the geography of American incarceration....

The divide does not appear to be driven by changes in crime, which fell in rural and urban areas at roughly equal rates, according to the F.B.I. Instead, it reflects growing disagreement about how harshly crime should be punished, especially drivers of the criminal justice system like theft, drugs, weapons and drunken driving.

Cities have adopted a more lenient approach to drug offenses in particular, diverting many low-level drug offenders to probation or treatment rather than to jail.

Those choices have started to reverse — if only modestly — longstanding racial disparities in American prisons, where blacks and Hispanics are incarcerated at drastically higher rates than whites. The annual number of new black prison inmates fell by about 25 percent from 2006 to 2013, and the number of Hispanic inmates fell by about 30 percent, while the number of new white inmates fell by only about 8 percent, according to the most complete federal data.

The number of black prisoners is still “shockingly high,” said Marc Mauer, executive director of the Sentencing Project. “Nonetheless, these numbers are encouraging. It suggests that this is not necessarily an intractable problem.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/02/upshot/new-geography-of-prisons.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
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BKAnthem



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PostSubject: Re: Steelers' Villanueva critical of QB Kaepernick's decision to sit during national anthem   Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:53 pm

@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
@BKAnthem wrote:
@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
Black people commit crimes at a higher rate than any other ethnicity, I would never judge the entirety of their community based on the actions of the few but I'm sick and damn tired of hearing people call the police murderers, claiming that they're out there just shooting unarmed people willy nilly. That's a crock of crap, and the people making these claims are people that haven't walked a single day in the shoes of a police officer and have no understanding of what it is that that job entails. If you did then you'd understand that those of us who comprise the thin blue line, don't take kindly to rotten apples amongst our ranks, and you'd understand that just like any other profession out there, that unfortunately, rotten apples find a way in. We're all for prosecuting them but calling cops murderers, and saying "Black Lives Matter" as if they're more important than any other life is just beyond ludicrous. Look at all these landmark shootings that have spurred on this whole "movement". Michael Brown assaulted a store owner, assaulted and attempted to disarm a police officer, and ended up shot. Witnesses blatantly lied on Michael Brown's behalf saying he had his hands up saying "don't shoot" which was proven to be a lie. The officer was battered, and he was judged guilty and raked through the coals nationally by a media and public that denied him his constitutional rights to due process and ruined his life and career. Nobody cared about the facts though, the facts came out, and all these people incensed to hate the police just waited for another shooting to happen so they could carry on the negative narrative.

These impoverished communities need to stand up, accept accountability for their mistakes, and work to improve themselves so the police don't have to intervene when their kids join gangs and get involved in criminal activities. It's not the police's fault when people make the decision to become criminals. They're not racist, they're not out targeting any specific race, they're out targeting crime and it just so happens that crime is the highest within the black community. These problems need to be attacked at the roots, as it sits, people don't want to accept that, they just want to scapegoat the police. That's not to say the police don't mess up, because they do, but the problems with the police are few and far between compared to the problems at large with the black community, in particular the most impoverished communities nationwide. People want to generalize the police for a handful of questionable shootings, but when 60 people get shot as a result of gang violence in Chicago in one weekend... Nobody says a thing. These same protesters, who are crying "Black Lives Matter" were nowhere to be found when Louisiana was hit with horrendous flooding, but the police were out there saving lives and putting themselves on the line... The police stood in front of, and protected protesters from the shooter in Dallas despite the fact these very same people were the ones defaming them.

Either way, I just get sick of hearing this stuff. Day in and day out, good officers getting killed because of this negative narrative that has gone way, way too far. People are acting like it's 1950 and we have institutional segregation going on... I'm sick of being called a racist myself simply because I'm white and I have to tell people "no" in my career field. I'm the furthest thing from racist, my family is ridiculously diverse, and the group of friends and I hang out with and talk to are diverse just the same. Color of skin means nothing to me outside of these stupid political debates where you're forced to bring it up. To me race is a label, one that only creates division among people. We're all human beings, that's all that should matter.

As for Kaepernick, stand for the National Anthem and respect the flag and your country, and the people that have fought for it. If you want to protest do it on your own time instead of using your team and the league as a medium to push your agenda down everyone else's throats. You can go and stand for a cause in a respectable way, without being disrespectful to your country.


Had to check and make sure i wasn't on a storm front or KKK website after reading this BS, But you are from Iowa so ( see what i did there?) :

A 2011 study which examined violent crime trends between 1980 and 2008 found that racial imbalances between arrest and incarceration levels were both small and comparably sized across the study period. The authors argued that the prior studies had been confounded by not separating Hispanics from Whites.[29] Another recent study in 2012 raises a different concern, showing that Hispanics and blacks receive considerably longer sentences for the same or lesser offenses on average than white offenders with equal or greater criminal records.[30][31]

A 2012 University of Michigan Law School study found that African Americans are given longer federal sentences even when factoring prior criminal records, and that African American jail sentences tend to be roughly 10% longer than white jail sentences for the same crimes.[32] The study found that Federal Prosecutors of African American and Hispanic defendants are almost twice as likely to push for mandatory minimum sentences, leading to longer sentences and disparities in incarceration rates for federal offenses.[33]

Ref:

"The Imprisonment Penalty for Young Black and Hispanic Males". Jrc.sagepub.com. 2011-05-03. Retrieved 2013-08-15.

"Racial disparity in the wake of Booker/Fanfan Making sense of "messy" results and other challenges for sentencing research - Engen - 2011 - Criminology & Public Policy - Wiley Online Library".

"Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences". Papers.ssrn.com. Retrieved 8 October 2014.

Rehavi and Starr (2012) "Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences" Working Paper Series, no. 12-002 (Univ. of Michigan Law & Economics, Empirical Legal Studies Center)


In a Nutshell....Same Crime...Different Time


And if your going in on old boy....where is the outrage over Bryton Mellott?  Not one person here (including you)  crucifying Kapernick mentioned him...smdh

Insinuate I'm racist again and you'll be on the wrong side of the ban hammer real quick. That kind of disrespect is totally unnecessary. My uncle is a black man married to a white woman, I have two cousins that are mixed race. You think I didn't have to defend them from racist scumbags growing up in small town Iowa?

My best friend is South Korean, my wife is Hispanic. I have family that is openly gay, and I have a member in my family that's transsexual as well. I'm the furthest thing from racist or intollerant. Just because I have a differing opinion doesn't mean I'm racist. I do not hate anyone, in fact I think race is a ridiculous label that only creates division between everyone.

Hey Your the one that opened your rant with that ignorant comment don't get mad at me...and threatening to Ban me cause that's what i saw it as? get real...you posted that BS without facts and numbers to back it up...next time check yourself
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BKAnthem



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Join date : 2012-01-13

PostSubject: Re: Steelers' Villanueva critical of QB Kaepernick's decision to sit during national anthem   Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:03 pm

@Atlanta Dan wrote:
@BKAnthem wrote:

Had to check and make sure i wasn't on a storm front or KKK website after reading this BS, But you are from Iowa so ( see what i did there?) :

A 2011 study which examined violent crime trends between 1980 and 2008 found that racial imbalances between arrest and incarceration levels were both small and comparably sized across the study period. The authors argued that the prior studies had been confounded by not separating Hispanics from Whites.[29] Another recent study in 2012 raises a different concern, showing that Hispanics and blacks receive considerably longer sentences for the same or lesser offenses on average than white offenders with equal or greater criminal records.[30][31]

A 2012 University of Michigan Law School study found that African Americans are given longer federal sentences even when factoring prior criminal records, and that African American jail sentences tend to be roughly 10% longer than white jail sentences for the same crimes.[32] The study found that Federal Prosecutors of African American and Hispanic defendants are almost twice as likely to push for mandatory minimum sentences, leading to longer sentences and disparities in incarceration rates for federal offenses.[33]

Ref:

"The Imprisonment Penalty for Young Black and Hispanic Males". Jrc.sagepub.com. 2011-05-03. Retrieved 2013-08-15.

"Racial disparity in the wake of Booker/Fanfan Making sense of "messy" results and other challenges for sentencing research - Engen - 2011 - Criminology & Public Policy - Wiley Online Library".

"Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences". Papers.ssrn.com. Retrieved 8 October 2014.

Rehavi and Starr (2012) "Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences" Working Paper Series, no. 12-002 (Univ. of Michigan Law & Economics, Empirical Legal Studies Center)


In a Nutshell....Same Crime...Different Time


And if your going in on old boy....where is the outrage over Bryton Mellott?  Not one person here (including you)  crucifying Kapernick mentioned him...smdh

I suppose it all depends which database you want to work with  - this from today's New York Times

Dearborn County represents the new boom in American prisons: mostly white, rural and politically conservative.

A bipartisan campaign to reduce mass incarceration has led to enormous declines in new inmates from big cities, cutting America’s prison population for the first time since the 1970s. From 2006 to 2014, annual prison admissions dropped 36 percent in Indianapolis; 37 percent in Brooklyn; 69 percent in Los Angeles County; and 93 percent in San Francisco.

But large parts of rural and suburban America — overwhelmed by the heroin epidemic and concerned about the safety of diverting people from prison — have gone the opposite direction. Prison admissions in counties with fewer than 100,000 people have risen even as crime has fallen, according to a New York Times analysis, which offers a newly detailed look at the geography of American incarceration....

The divide does not appear to be driven by changes in crime, which fell in rural and urban areas at roughly equal rates, according to the F.B.I. Instead, it reflects growing disagreement about how harshly crime should be punished, especially drivers of the criminal justice system like theft, drugs, weapons and drunken driving.

Cities have adopted a more lenient approach to drug offenses in particular, diverting many low-level drug offenders to probation or treatment rather than to jail.

Those choices have started to reverse — if only modestly — longstanding racial disparities in American prisons, where blacks and Hispanics are incarcerated at drastically higher rates than whites. The annual number of new black prison inmates fell by about 25 percent from 2006 to 2013, and the number of Hispanic inmates fell by about 30 percent, while the number of new white inmates fell by only about 8 percent, according to the most complete federal data.

The number of black prisoners is still “shockingly high,” said Marc Mauer, executive director of the Sentencing Project. “Nonetheless, these numbers are encouraging. It suggests that this is not necessarily an intractable problem.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/02/upshot/new-geography-of-prisons.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

3) When black people are convicted of a crime, they are more likely to be sentenced to incarceration compared to whites convicted of the same crime.
When a person is convicted of a crime, a judge often has discretion in determining whether the defendant will be incarcerated or given a less severe punishment such as probation, community service, or fines. One study( http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1800840## ) found that in a particular region blacks were incarcerated for convicted felony offenses 51% of the time while whites convicted of felonies were incarcerated 38% of the time. The same study also used an empirical approach to determine that race, not confounded with any other factor, was a key determinant in judges’ decisions to incarcerate.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kim-farbota/black-crime-rates-your-st_b_8078586.html
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Atlanta Dan



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PostSubject: Re: Steelers' Villanueva critical of QB Kaepernick's decision to sit during national anthem   Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:16 pm

@BKAnthem wrote:
@Atlanta Dan wrote:
@BKAnthem wrote:

Had to check and make sure i wasn't on a storm front or KKK website after reading this BS, But you are from Iowa so ( see what i did there?) :

A 2011 study which examined violent crime trends between 1980 and 2008 found that racial imbalances between arrest and incarceration levels were both small and comparably sized across the study period. The authors argued that the prior studies had been confounded by not separating Hispanics from Whites.[29] Another recent study in 2012 raises a different concern, showing that Hispanics and blacks receive considerably longer sentences for the same or lesser offenses on average than white offenders with equal or greater criminal records.[30][31]

A 2012 University of Michigan Law School study found that African Americans are given longer federal sentences even when factoring prior criminal records, and that African American jail sentences tend to be roughly 10% longer than white jail sentences for the same crimes.[32] The study found that Federal Prosecutors of African American and Hispanic defendants are almost twice as likely to push for mandatory minimum sentences, leading to longer sentences and disparities in incarceration rates for federal offenses.[33]

Ref:

"The Imprisonment Penalty for Young Black and Hispanic Males". Jrc.sagepub.com. 2011-05-03. Retrieved 2013-08-15.

"Racial disparity in the wake of Booker/Fanfan Making sense of "messy" results and other challenges for sentencing research - Engen - 2011 - Criminology & Public Policy - Wiley Online Library".

"Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences". Papers.ssrn.com. Retrieved 8 October 2014.

Rehavi and Starr (2012) "Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences" Working Paper Series, no. 12-002 (Univ. of Michigan Law & Economics, Empirical Legal Studies Center)


In a Nutshell....Same Crime...Different Time


And if your going in on old boy....where is the outrage over Bryton Mellott?  Not one person here (including you)  crucifying Kapernick mentioned him...smdh

I suppose it all depends which database you want to work with  - this from today's New York Times

Dearborn County represents the new boom in American prisons: mostly white, rural and politically conservative.

A bipartisan campaign to reduce mass incarceration has led to enormous declines in new inmates from big cities, cutting America’s prison population for the first time since the 1970s. From 2006 to 2014, annual prison admissions dropped 36 percent in Indianapolis; 37 percent in Brooklyn; 69 percent in Los Angeles County; and 93 percent in San Francisco.

But large parts of rural and suburban America — overwhelmed by the heroin epidemic and concerned about the safety of diverting people from prison — have gone the opposite direction. Prison admissions in counties with fewer than 100,000 people have risen even as crime has fallen, according to a New York Times analysis, which offers a newly detailed look at the geography of American incarceration....

The divide does not appear to be driven by changes in crime, which fell in rural and urban areas at roughly equal rates, according to the F.B.I. Instead, it reflects growing disagreement about how harshly crime should be punished, especially drivers of the criminal justice system like theft, drugs, weapons and drunken driving.

Cities have adopted a more lenient approach to drug offenses in particular, diverting many low-level drug offenders to probation or treatment rather than to jail.

Those choices have started to reverse — if only modestly — longstanding racial disparities in American prisons, where blacks and Hispanics are incarcerated at drastically higher rates than whites. The annual number of new black prison inmates fell by about 25 percent from 2006 to 2013, and the number of Hispanic inmates fell by about 30 percent, while the number of new white inmates fell by only about 8 percent, according to the most complete federal data.

The number of black prisoners is still “shockingly high,” said Marc Mauer, executive director of the Sentencing Project. “Nonetheless, these numbers are encouraging. It suggests that this is not necessarily an intractable problem.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/02/upshot/new-geography-of-prisons.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

3) When black people are convicted of a crime, they are more likely to be sentenced to incarceration compared to whites convicted of the same crime.
When a person is convicted of a crime, a judge often has discretion in determining whether the defendant will be incarcerated or given a less severe punishment such as probation, community service, or fines. One study( http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1800840##  ) found that in a particular region blacks were incarcerated for convicted felony offenses 51% of the time while whites convicted of felonies were incarcerated 38% of the time. The same study also used an empirical approach to determine that race, not confounded with any other factor, was a key determinant in judges’ decisions to incarcerate.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kim-farbota/black-crime-rates-your-st_b_8078586.html

Does that discredit the NYT story or just present a different data point?  According to the NYT if you commit a drug crime today and live in a white rural jurisdiction you likely are going to do greater, not lesser, time for the same crime.

And factors other than race might be the actual cause for disparities. This excerpt from a 2015 study prepared for my former employer the U.S. Justice Department

The disparity between black and white males narrowed as crimes became more serious. Race probably correlated with other characteristics—such as education, income, demeanor, and location—which might have accounted partially for the differing sentences among white and black males...

Judges were found to disagree more about the sentences for females than the sentences to be imposed on males. As a whole, females and white males received less severe sentences than black males over the 8-year study period. Black females were found to not be disadvantaged compared to white females.


http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fsd0512_sum.pdf

If judges have it in for blacks one would expect white females to receive lesser sentences than black females.

As stated previously, it all depends which studies you want to roll with.

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IowaSteeler927

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers' Villanueva critical of QB Kaepernick's decision to sit during national anthem   Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:22 pm

@BKAnthem wrote:
@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
@BKAnthem wrote:
@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
Black people commit crimes at a higher rate than any other ethnicity, I would never judge the entirety of their community based on the actions of the few but I'm sick and damn tired of hearing people call the police murderers, claiming that they're out there just shooting unarmed people willy nilly. That's a crock of crap, and the people making these claims are people that haven't walked a single day in the shoes of a police officer and have no understanding of what it is that that job entails. If you did then you'd understand that those of us who comprise the thin blue line, don't take kindly to rotten apples amongst our ranks, and you'd understand that just like any other profession out there, that unfortunately, rotten apples find a way in. We're all for prosecuting them but calling cops murderers, and saying "Black Lives Matter" as if they're more important than any other life is just beyond ludicrous. Look at all these landmark shootings that have spurred on this whole "movement". Michael Brown assaulted a store owner, assaulted and attempted to disarm a police officer, and ended up shot. Witnesses blatantly lied on Michael Brown's behalf saying he had his hands up saying "don't shoot" which was proven to be a lie. The officer was battered, and he was judged guilty and raked through the coals nationally by a media and public that denied him his constitutional rights to due process and ruined his life and career. Nobody cared about the facts though, the facts came out, and all these people incensed to hate the police just waited for another shooting to happen so they could carry on the negative narrative.

These impoverished communities need to stand up, accept accountability for their mistakes, and work to improve themselves so the police don't have to intervene when their kids join gangs and get involved in criminal activities. It's not the police's fault when people make the decision to become criminals. They're not racist, they're not out targeting any specific race, they're out targeting crime and it just so happens that crime is the highest within the black community. These problems need to be attacked at the roots, as it sits, people don't want to accept that, they just want to scapegoat the police. That's not to say the police don't mess up, because they do, but the problems with the police are few and far between compared to the problems at large with the black community, in particular the most impoverished communities nationwide. People want to generalize the police for a handful of questionable shootings, but when 60 people get shot as a result of gang violence in Chicago in one weekend... Nobody says a thing. These same protesters, who are crying "Black Lives Matter" were nowhere to be found when Louisiana was hit with horrendous flooding, but the police were out there saving lives and putting themselves on the line... The police stood in front of, and protected protesters from the shooter in Dallas despite the fact these very same people were the ones defaming them.

Either way, I just get sick of hearing this stuff. Day in and day out, good officers getting killed because of this negative narrative that has gone way, way too far. People are acting like it's 1950 and we have institutional segregation going on... I'm sick of being called a racist myself simply because I'm white and I have to tell people "no" in my career field. I'm the furthest thing from racist, my family is ridiculously diverse, and the group of friends and I hang out with and talk to are diverse just the same. Color of skin means nothing to me outside of these stupid political debates where you're forced to bring it up. To me race is a label, one that only creates division among people. We're all human beings, that's all that should matter.

As for Kaepernick, stand for the National Anthem and respect the flag and your country, and the people that have fought for it. If you want to protest do it on your own time instead of using your team and the league as a medium to push your agenda down everyone else's throats. You can go and stand for a cause in a respectable way, without being disrespectful to your country.


Had to check and make sure i wasn't on a storm front or KKK website after reading this BS, But you are from Iowa so ( see what i did there?) :

A 2011 study which examined violent crime trends between 1980 and 2008 found that racial imbalances between arrest and incarceration levels were both small and comparably sized across the study period. The authors argued that the prior studies had been confounded by not separating Hispanics from Whites.[29] Another recent study in 2012 raises a different concern, showing that Hispanics and blacks receive considerably longer sentences for the same or lesser offenses on average than white offenders with equal or greater criminal records.[30][31]

A 2012 University of Michigan Law School study found that African Americans are given longer federal sentences even when factoring prior criminal records, and that African American jail sentences tend to be roughly 10% longer than white jail sentences for the same crimes.[32] The study found that Federal Prosecutors of African American and Hispanic defendants are almost twice as likely to push for mandatory minimum sentences, leading to longer sentences and disparities in incarceration rates for federal offenses.[33]

Ref:

"The Imprisonment Penalty for Young Black and Hispanic Males". Jrc.sagepub.com. 2011-05-03. Retrieved 2013-08-15.

"Racial disparity in the wake of Booker/Fanfan Making sense of "messy" results and other challenges for sentencing research - Engen - 2011 - Criminology & Public Policy - Wiley Online Library".

"Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences". Papers.ssrn.com. Retrieved 8 October 2014.

Rehavi and Starr (2012) "Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences" Working Paper Series, no. 12-002 (Univ. of Michigan Law & Economics, Empirical Legal Studies Center)


In a Nutshell....Same Crime...Different Time


And if your going in on old boy....where is the outrage over Bryton Mellott?  Not one person here (including you)  crucifying Kapernick mentioned him...smdh

Insinuate I'm racist again and you'll be on the wrong side of the ban hammer real quick. That kind of disrespect is totally unnecessary. My uncle is a black man married to a white woman, I have two cousins that are mixed race. You think I didn't have to defend them from racist scumbags growing up in small town Iowa?

My best friend is South Korean, my wife is Hispanic. I have family that is openly gay, and I have a member in my family that's transsexual as well. I'm the furthest thing from racist or intollerant. Just because I have a differing opinion doesn't mean I'm racist. I do not hate anyone, in fact I think race is a ridiculous label that only creates division between everyone.

Hey Your the one that opened your rant with that ignorant comment don't get mad at me...and threatening to Ban me cause that's what i saw it as?  get real...you posted that BS without facts and numbers to back it up...next time check yourself

You want numbers? Go read the FBI crime statistics. I made a comment that is absolutely true. You twisted into racism, and then compared me to fucking Stormfront and the KKK which was totally uncalled for, and beyond ridiculous. If you can't have an adult discussion without jumping straight into insults and assumptions then you shouldn't be in online forums.

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Hawaii 5-0

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers' Villanueva critical of QB Kaepernick's decision to sit during national anthem   Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:50 pm

race, religion and politics are always emotional issues to discuss and I've never seen anyone change someone's else's mind in an argument over them.

thankfully, the preseason is now over and we will soon have Steelers football games that actually count to discuss and argue about...

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IowaSteeler927

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers' Villanueva critical of QB Kaepernick's decision to sit during national anthem   Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:10 pm

@Hawaii 5-0 wrote:
race, religion and politics are always emotional issues to discuss and I've never seen anyone change someone's else's mind in an argument over them.

thankfully, the preseason is now over and we will soon have Steelers football games that actually count to discuss and argue about...  

Couldn't agree more! On with Steelers football!

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"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." - Jack Lambert
RIP to the late great B.B. King the Mayor of Bluesville
RIP Tyler Sash #9. Greatest Hawkeye Safety to ever don the black & gold.
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FrancoLambert



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PostSubject: Re: Steelers' Villanueva critical of QB Kaepernick's decision to sit during national anthem   Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:17 pm

@Hawaii 5-0 wrote:
race, religion and politics are always emotional issues to discuss and I've never seen anyone change someone's else's mind in an argument over them.

thankfully, the preseason is now over and we will soon have Steelers football games that actually count to discuss and argue about...  

Amen

This issue is becoming more divisive by the day....and by the post.

If more players join in, it will eventually over time influence fans to join in.

It could make for some very ugly displays in the stands.
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mscarmel0716
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PostSubject: Re: Steelers' Villanueva critical of QB Kaepernick's decision to sit during national anthem   Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:47 pm

@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
@dave n'at wrote:
@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
@dave n'at wrote:

I wasn't really including you in this scenario since you really didn't post much in the way of what I was referring to. In fact, I actually was rather moved by the story you did post about the kid sitting by himself at lunch. But dudes like Iowa? I'd bet the farm on his Trump loyalty.

Well better get me the deed to your farm, because I'm not a Trump supporter. I hate Hillary, and I hate Trump. I am a firm Independent and I'll likely be writing someone in on my ballot. Any more asinine assumptions about me that I can address?

Nah, you're doing a good enough job of painting yourself pretty much exactly how you are. Feel free to ban me, fucko. Been following this group of posters since back in the Trib-Live board days, and this forum is by far the worst iteration.





Wow, how very mature of you. Never said one thing insulting, you make a rude assumption because you disagree with my opinion, and then namecall. All the hallmarks of an intelligent adult... Bye Felicia. The forum doesn't need people like you anyways.

I said the black community needs to come together to fix crime problems... That's not racist, not in the least. If I said the same thing about whites you wouldn't of even batted an eye. I love all peoples, race, ethnicity, culture, or creed are labels to me. I have an opinion, one based in extensive personal experience, if anyone else would want to discuss my opinion please do so in a respectful manner. I'm more than happy to elaborate if something comes across the wrong way. But I will not put up with being insulted, having my home of Iowa insulted, or being associated with awful hate groups such as Stormfront or the KKK.

Right on, Iowa!
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BKAnthem



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PostSubject: Re: Steelers' Villanueva critical of QB Kaepernick's decision to sit during national anthem   Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:08 pm

@kirklandrules wrote:
@BKAnthem wrote:
@kirklandrules wrote:
@BKAnthem wrote:
@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
Black people commit crimes at a higher rate than any other ethnicity, I would never judge the entirety of their community based on the actions of the few but I'm sick and damn tired of hearing people call the police murderers, claiming that they're out there just shooting unarmed people willy nilly. That's a crock of crap, and the people making these claims are people that haven't walked a single day in the shoes of a police officer and have no understanding of what it is that that job entails. If you did then you'd understand that those of us who comprise the thin blue line, don't take kindly to rotten apples amongst our ranks, and you'd understand that just like any other profession out there, that unfortunately, rotten apples find a way in. We're all for prosecuting them but calling cops murderers, and saying "Black Lives Matter" as if they're more important than any other life is just beyond ludicrous. Look at all these landmark shootings that have spurred on this whole "movement". Michael Brown assaulted a store owner, assaulted and attempted to disarm a police officer, and ended up shot. Witnesses blatantly lied on Michael Brown's behalf saying he had his hands up saying "don't shoot" which was proven to be a lie. The officer was battered, and he was judged guilty and raked through the coals nationally by a media and public that denied him his constitutional rights to due process and ruined his life and career. Nobody cared about the facts though, the facts came out, and all these people incensed to hate the police just waited for another shooting to happen so they could carry on the negative narrative.

These impoverished communities need to stand up, accept accountability for their mistakes, and work to improve themselves so the police don't have to intervene when their kids join gangs and get involved in criminal activities. It's not the police's fault when people make the decision to become criminals. They're not racist, they're not out targeting any specific race, they're out targeting crime and it just so happens that crime is the highest within the black community. These problems need to be attacked at the roots, as it sits, people don't want to accept that, they just want to scapegoat the police. That's not to say the police don't mess up, because they do, but the problems with the police are few and far between compared to the problems at large with the black community, in particular the most impoverished communities nationwide. People want to generalize the police for a handful of questionable shootings, but when 60 people get shot as a result of gang violence in Chicago in one weekend... Nobody says a thing. These same protesters, who are crying "Black Lives Matter" were nowhere to be found when Louisiana was hit with horrendous flooding, but the police were out there saving lives and putting themselves on the line... The police stood in front of, and protected protesters from the shooter in Dallas despite the fact these very same people were the ones defaming them.

Either way, I just get sick of hearing this stuff. Day in and day out, good officers getting killed because of this negative narrative that has gone way, way too far. People are acting like it's 1950 and we have institutional segregation going on... I'm sick of being called a racist myself simply because I'm white and I have to tell people "no" in my career field. I'm the furthest thing from racist, my family is ridiculously diverse, and the group of friends and I hang out with and talk to are diverse just the same. Color of skin means nothing to me outside of these stupid political debates where you're forced to bring it up. To me race is a label, one that only creates division among people. We're all human beings, that's all that should matter.

As for Kaepernick, stand for the National Anthem and respect the flag and your country, and the people that have fought for it. If you want to protest do it on your own time instead of using your team and the league as a medium to push your agenda down everyone else's throats. You can go and stand for a cause in a respectable way, without being disrespectful to your country.


Had to check and make sure i wasn't on a storm front or KKK website after reading this BS, But you are from Iowa so ( see what i did there?) :

A 2011 study which examined violent crime trends between 1980 and 2008 found that racial imbalances between arrest and incarceration levels were both small and comparably sized across the study period. The authors argued that the prior studies had been confounded by not separating Hispanics from Whites.[29] Another recent study in 2012 raises a different concern, showing that Hispanics and blacks receive considerably longer sentences for the same or lesser offenses on average than white offenders with equal or greater criminal records.[30][31]

A 2012 University of Michigan Law School study found that African Americans are given longer federal sentences even when factoring prior criminal records, and that African American jail sentences tend to be roughly 10% longer than white jail sentences for the same crimes.[32] The study found that Federal Prosecutors of African American and Hispanic defendants are almost twice as likely to push for mandatory minimum sentences, leading to longer sentences and disparities in incarceration rates for federal offenses.[33]

Ref:

"The Imprisonment Penalty for Young Black and Hispanic Males". Jrc.sagepub.com. 2011-05-03. Retrieved 2013-08-15.

"Racial disparity in the wake of Booker/Fanfan Making sense of "messy" results and other challenges for sentencing research - Engen - 2011 - Criminology & Public Policy - Wiley Online Library".

"Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences". Papers.ssrn.com. Retrieved 8 October 2014.

Rehavi and Starr (2012) "Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences" Working Paper Series, no. 12-002 (Univ. of Michigan Law & Economics, Empirical Legal Studies Center)


In a Nutshell....Same Crime...Different Time


And if your going in on old boy....where is the outrage over Bryton Mellott?  Not one person here (including you)  crucifying Kapernick mentioned him...smdh

BK, I don't disagree with the evidence you present nor with the idea that there's prejudice in the system, however, I don't think your analysis was in line with Iowa's post. You're slamming him for his ideas by providing evidence in a separate category from which Iowa speaks to. Incarceration rates compared to arrest rates isn't in his topic. You might want to provide evidence that shows crime rates by demographic, that will help get your argument in line with his post.

I'm not sure why you think people would reference Mellott as an example in line with Kaepernick. Mellott is a nobody nut who got 5 mins of fame (although not widespread fame because he was really a nobody) for burning the flag and posting pics of it online. The guy has more than a few loose screws, thought he could post his pics of flag burning on Facebook and hide behind the 1st amendment ... but was arrested anyways. Kaepernick was a semi successful QB who took his team to the SB and decided to use his fame to protest against something that is recently dear to him. There are some responders to this thread that think his protest is ill-directed and shows a lack of thought.

And for those trying to keep a tic sheet: I'm disgusted with both Trump and Hillary, somehow that matters in this thread?

It is in line if you consider a black person will more than likely end up with a criminal conviction and a white person won't for committing the same crime....padding these crime stats he's referring to that are committed by blacks over any other ethnicity.

It isn't in line with his argument. He's inferring that as a % African Americans are more likely to have an interaction with police than other races and, therefore, have a higher likelihood of being shot. Your argument of convictions and sentences (which I agree with, BTW) is not the same topic because it's a matter of prejudice in the court system and well past the point a cop might shoot a suspect. He said: Black people commit crimes at a higher rate than any other ethnicity, I would never judge the entirety of their community based on the actions of the few but I'm sick and damn tired of hearing people call the police murderers, claiming that they're out there just shooting unarmed people willy nilly.

You're calling him a racist for that comment and I'm trying to help get your argument back to where a cop has a decision to shoot. What a judge, DA and a handful of attorneys do after that isn't the point.

@BKAnthem wrote:
Mellot Burned a Flag and got not even half the outrage Colin is getting for his silent protest which hurts no one and damages nothing.

But my point is that millions of people know who Kaepernick is and his decision to protest the anthem is more widely covered. You're surprised people weren't up in arms over the actions of a nobody, who most people don't know by name or face. He's just another loon who wants attention and decides to do it by burning the American flag. This is a Steelers site with plenty of people interested in football and the guys playing the game. Who gives a sh!t about Mellot? O.k. fine, I think Mellot's actions are disgusting, but the Supreme Court says it's his 1st amendment right, until the police and the DA decided his actions present a danger to himself (and the police warning him he's putting himself and others in danger). Don't be surprised that an entertainer, who has millions of people watching, get more attention than some unknown nut case.

@BKAnthem wrote:
I also disagree with your lack of thought comment, he thought it was in his constitutional protected right to protest something he felt was wrong..the only lack of thought i see are people quick to call him the N word and disrespectful for it...

My lack of thought comment has nothing to do with his constitutionally protected right. I've said it in a prior post: The beauty of the the 1st amendment is that he has the right to make his protest. And I have a right to say he's an overpaid, sh!tty QB who is coming off as a dumb-ass. My point of the lack of thought comment is that if he's looking to protest against cops shooting minorities, sitting during the National Anthem isn't that bright. He's detracting from what he's attempting to call attention to. Look at the posts in this thread alone. There's just as much chatter about the disregard to our service members as there has been about police shootings. I don't think Kaepernick was looking to sh!t on our military members, therefore, his message didn't hit the right target. Hence, his protest lacked thought.


No, This is what he opened with ...."Black people commit crimes at a higher rate than any other ethnicity,"

Everything else after that is Blather...especially without numbers to back it up..in fact Blacks make up 40% of this country's prison population and whites make up 39%....as of 2015..those numbers seem pretty even to me

As for convictions and sentencing regarding blacks and the criminal justice system...It's pretty common knowledge blacks have been getting a raw deal from the justice system for a LOOOOOOONG TIME, as compared to Whites.

As far as Kaps Protest...That's your OPINION if you feel his actions aren't that bright...or was a lack of thought, especially since he's said more that once he's given this considerable thought...so just because YOU don't like his form of protest you deem it stupid again YOUR OPINION, Plenty of people see through that "shit on the Military" smokescreen ( including military members) and recognize it for what it truly is...one mans peaceful protest against police brutality.
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Atlanta Dan



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PostSubject: Re: Steelers' Villanueva critical of QB Kaepernick's decision to sit during national anthem   Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:03 pm

@Vis wrote:
@Hawaii 5-0 wrote:
@Atlanta Dan wrote:


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/look-colin-kaepernicks-practice-socks-appear-to-disrespect-the-police/



"It's just ridiculous that the same league that prohibits the Dallas (Cowboys) football club from honoring the slain officers in their community with their uniforms stands silent when Kaepernick is dishonoring police officers with what he's wearing on the field," Bill Johnson, executive director of the National Association of Police Organizations, said, according to USA TODAY Sports.


That will be a good point if he wears them on gameday while in uniform

Apparently at least one player is blowing off the uniform policy on game day

One thing learned in the aftermath of the Colin Kaepernick controversy was this: Players can’t remove the flag decal from their helmets.

One thing learned tonight, acting on a tip from a reader, was this: Players can (and at least one did) remove the NFL shield from their helmets.

In each of the final two preseason games of 2016, Patriots* quarterback Tom Brady played in a helmet that did not have the NFL shield in the left rear portion of the helmet. He didn’t play at all in the first two preseason games.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/09/02/tom-brady-plays-preseason-games-without-nfl-logo-on-helmet/

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IowaSteeler927

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers' Villanueva critical of QB Kaepernick's decision to sit during national anthem   Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:11 pm

@BKAnthem wrote:
@kirklandrules wrote:
@BKAnthem wrote:
@kirklandrules wrote:
@BKAnthem wrote:
@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
Black people commit crimes at a higher rate than any other ethnicity, I would never judge the entirety of their community based on the actions of the few but I'm sick and damn tired of hearing people call the police murderers, claiming that they're out there just shooting unarmed people willy nilly. That's a crock of crap, and the people making these claims are people that haven't walked a single day in the shoes of a police officer and have no understanding of what it is that that job entails. If you did then you'd understand that those of us who comprise the thin blue line, don't take kindly to rotten apples amongst our ranks, and you'd understand that just like any other profession out there, that unfortunately, rotten apples find a way in. We're all for prosecuting them but calling cops murderers, and saying "Black Lives Matter" as if they're more important than any other life is just beyond ludicrous. Look at all these landmark shootings that have spurred on this whole "movement". Michael Brown assaulted a store owner, assaulted and attempted to disarm a police officer, and ended up shot. Witnesses blatantly lied on Michael Brown's behalf saying he had his hands up saying "don't shoot" which was proven to be a lie. The officer was battered, and he was judged guilty and raked through the coals nationally by a media and public that denied him his constitutional rights to due process and ruined his life and career. Nobody cared about the facts though, the facts came out, and all these people incensed to hate the police just waited for another shooting to happen so they could carry on the negative narrative.

These impoverished communities need to stand up, accept accountability for their mistakes, and work to improve themselves so the police don't have to intervene when their kids join gangs and get involved in criminal activities. It's not the police's fault when people make the decision to become criminals. They're not racist, they're not out targeting any specific race, they're out targeting crime and it just so happens that crime is the highest within the black community. These problems need to be attacked at the roots, as it sits, people don't want to accept that, they just want to scapegoat the police. That's not to say the police don't mess up, because they do, but the problems with the police are few and far between compared to the problems at large with the black community, in particular the most impoverished communities nationwide. People want to generalize the police for a handful of questionable shootings, but when 60 people get shot as a result of gang violence in Chicago in one weekend... Nobody says a thing. These same protesters, who are crying "Black Lives Matter" were nowhere to be found when Louisiana was hit with horrendous flooding, but the police were out there saving lives and putting themselves on the line... The police stood in front of, and protected protesters from the shooter in Dallas despite the fact these very same people were the ones defaming them.

Either way, I just get sick of hearing this stuff. Day in and day out, good officers getting killed because of this negative narrative that has gone way, way too far. People are acting like it's 1950 and we have institutional segregation going on... I'm sick of being called a racist myself simply because I'm white and I have to tell people "no" in my career field. I'm the furthest thing from racist, my family is ridiculously diverse, and the group of friends and I hang out with and talk to are diverse just the same. Color of skin means nothing to me outside of these stupid political debates where you're forced to bring it up. To me race is a label, one that only creates division among people. We're all human beings, that's all that should matter.

As for Kaepernick, stand for the National Anthem and respect the flag and your country, and the people that have fought for it. If you want to protest do it on your own time instead of using your team and the league as a medium to push your agenda down everyone else's throats. You can go and stand for a cause in a respectable way, without being disrespectful to your country.


Had to check and make sure i wasn't on a storm front or KKK website after reading this BS, But you are from Iowa so ( see what i did there?) :

A 2011 study which examined violent crime trends between 1980 and 2008 found that racial imbalances between arrest and incarceration levels were both small and comparably sized across the study period. The authors argued that the prior studies had been confounded by not separating Hispanics from Whites.[29] Another recent study in 2012 raises a different concern, showing that Hispanics and blacks receive considerably longer sentences for the same or lesser offenses on average than white offenders with equal or greater criminal records.[30][31]

A 2012 University of Michigan Law School study found that African Americans are given longer federal sentences even when factoring prior criminal records, and that African American jail sentences tend to be roughly 10% longer than white jail sentences for the same crimes.[32] The study found that Federal Prosecutors of African American and Hispanic defendants are almost twice as likely to push for mandatory minimum sentences, leading to longer sentences and disparities in incarceration rates for federal offenses.[33]

Ref:

"The Imprisonment Penalty for Young Black and Hispanic Males". Jrc.sagepub.com. 2011-05-03. Retrieved 2013-08-15.

"Racial disparity in the wake of Booker/Fanfan Making sense of "messy" results and other challenges for sentencing research - Engen - 2011 - Criminology & Public Policy - Wiley Online Library".

"Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences". Papers.ssrn.com. Retrieved 8 October 2014.

Rehavi and Starr (2012) "Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences" Working Paper Series, no. 12-002 (Univ. of Michigan Law & Economics, Empirical Legal Studies Center)


In a Nutshell....Same Crime...Different Time


And if your going in on old boy....where is the outrage over Bryton Mellott?  Not one person here (including you)  crucifying Kapernick mentioned him...smdh

BK, I don't disagree with the evidence you present nor with the idea that there's prejudice in the system, however, I don't think your analysis was in line with Iowa's post. You're slamming him for his ideas by providing evidence in a separate category from which Iowa speaks to. Incarceration rates compared to arrest rates isn't in his topic. You might want to provide evidence that shows crime rates by demographic, that will help get your argument in line with his post.

I'm not sure why you think people would reference Mellott as an example in line with Kaepernick. Mellott is a nobody nut who got 5 mins of fame (although not widespread fame because he was really a nobody) for burning the flag and posting pics of it online. The guy has more than a few loose screws, thought he could post his pics of flag burning on Facebook and hide behind the 1st amendment ... but was arrested anyways. Kaepernick was a semi successful QB who took his team to the SB and decided to use his fame to protest against something that is recently dear to him. There are some responders to this thread that think his protest is ill-directed and shows a lack of thought.

And for those trying to keep a tic sheet: I'm disgusted with both Trump and Hillary, somehow that matters in this thread?

It is in line if you consider a black person will more than likely end up with a criminal conviction and a white person won't for committing the same crime....padding these crime stats he's referring to that are committed by blacks over any other ethnicity.

It isn't in line with his argument. He's inferring that as a % African Americans are more likely to have an interaction with police than other races and, therefore, have a higher likelihood of being shot. Your argument of convictions and sentences (which I agree with, BTW) is not the same topic because it's a matter of prejudice in the court system and well past the point a cop might shoot a suspect. He said: Black people commit crimes at a higher rate than any other ethnicity, I would never judge the entirety of their community based on the actions of the few but I'm sick and damn tired of hearing people call the police murderers, claiming that they're out there just shooting unarmed people willy nilly.

You're calling him a racist for that comment and I'm trying to help get your argument back to where a cop has a decision to shoot. What a judge, DA and a handful of attorneys do after that isn't the point.

@BKAnthem wrote:
Mellot Burned a Flag and got not even half the outrage Colin is getting for his silent protest which hurts no one and damages nothing.

But my point is that millions of people know who Kaepernick is and his decision to protest the anthem is more widely covered. You're surprised people weren't up in arms over the actions of a nobody, who most people don't know by name or face. He's just another loon who wants attention and decides to do it by burning the American flag. This is a Steelers site with plenty of people interested in football and the guys playing the game. Who gives a sh!t about Mellot? O.k. fine, I think Mellot's actions are disgusting, but the Supreme Court says it's his 1st amendment right, until the police and the DA decided his actions present a danger to himself (and the police warning him he's putting himself and others in danger). Don't be surprised that an entertainer, who has millions of people watching, get more attention than some unknown nut case.

@BKAnthem wrote:
I also disagree with your lack of thought comment, he thought it was in his constitutional protected right to protest something he felt was wrong..the only lack of thought i see are people quick to call him the N word and disrespectful for it...

My lack of thought comment has nothing to do with his constitutionally protected right. I've said it in a prior post: The beauty of the the 1st amendment is that he has the right to make his protest. And I have a right to say he's an overpaid, sh!tty QB who is coming off as a dumb-ass. My point of the lack of thought comment is that if he's looking to protest against cops shooting minorities, sitting during the National Anthem isn't that bright. He's detracting from what he's attempting to call attention to. Look at the posts in this thread alone. There's just as much chatter about the disregard to our service members as there has been about police shootings. I don't think Kaepernick was looking to sh!t on our military members, therefore, his message didn't hit the right target. Hence, his protest lacked thought.


No, This is what he opened with ...."Black people commit crimes at a higher rate than any other ethnicity,"

Everything else after that is Blather...especially without numbers to back it up..in fact Blacks make up 40% of this country's prison population and whites make up 39%....as of 2015..those numbers seem pretty even to me

As for convictions and sentencing regarding blacks and the criminal justice system...It's pretty common knowledge blacks have been getting a raw deal from the justice system for a LOOOOOOONG TIME, as compared to Whites.

As far as Kaps Protest...That's your OPINION if you feel his actions aren't that bright...or was a lack of thought,  especially since he's said more that once he's given this considerable thought...so just because YOU don't like his form of protest you deem it stupid again YOUR OPINION, Plenty of people see through that "shit on the Military" smokescreen ( including military members) and recognize it for what it truly is...one mans peaceful protest against police brutality.


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