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 How do you fix "this" shlt?

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QueenstownPa
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PostSubject: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:19 pm

I'm not going to say we are done or anything stupid like that but WTF was that shit yesterday!

THIS LOSS FALLS 100% ON COACHING! I wonder if they still think we can win with the original game plan? They did the exact same things from the first snap to the last and it never produced anything other than the first drive.

It should be entertaining to see what us arm-chair coaches have to say!
1. Artie Burns can't tackle ANYBODY!
2. Wheaton can't catch! He looks scared to be hit!
3. Mike Mitchell is a disaster waiting to happen and he WILL lose a game for us with his chicken shit!
4. What do you do with Shazier when he gets hurts every game? He seems to have too much leverage for his body!
5. Is Ben hurt? I've never seen him as inaccurate as he has been this year!
6. WHY DON'T WE BLITZ.........EVER? Is our secondary that bad? Or is Butler from another planet?
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kirklandrules

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PostSubject: Re: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:00 pm

At some point, the players have to play the game. If the players go out and execute yesterday, the coaches would have looked like geniuses.

Like I mentioned in another thread, you chalk this up to a butt whipping and move on. The team really didn't play well in almost every phase of the game. Think about KC!
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Fire Arians

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PostSubject: Re: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:48 pm

I'm hoping it's an anomaly like the last time we played in philly

I had a feeling we lost the game after the botched first drive. A dropped TD pass, then a blocked FG at close range. That had a stamp of 'losing football' all over it. And I was right
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QueenstownPa
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PostSubject: Re: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:19 pm

@kirklandrules wrote:
At some point, the players have to play the game. If the players go out and execute yesterday, the coaches would have looked like geniuses.

Like I mentioned in another thread, you chalk this up to a butt whipping and move on. The team really didn't play well in almost every phase of the game. Think about KC!

Of course the players have to play but when the game plan is systematically failing you have to find another way. This is why you see so many games where the first half and second half all diametrically opposed.....It's not because the players decide at half time to play better, it's because coaching made some changes to what wasn't working.
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PostSubject: Re: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:04 pm

Eh, I'm not panicking.  Honestly this loss was so bad that you can chalk most of it up to a fluke loss where every single player was out of sync at the same time.  The Eagles may very well be the better team, and the Steelers defense may very well suck, but play that game 10 times and the score is going to be nowhere near that lopsided 9/10 times.  Not saying we win 9/10 times, but this offense isn't going to get shut down like that on a regular basis.

Does that mean the reason nobody showed up ready to play was because of poor coaching?  Probably.  But Tomlin has enough of a proven track record at this point that it's not worth worrying about.  In the long run, this coaching staff is going to beat more teams than they lose to, make the playoffs more often than not, and be in contention.  It would be nice if they could have the Belichick-esque ability to always have the entire roster prepared for any game or scenario and ready to win no matter what, but let's be honest, no other coaching staff in the NFL has that ability.  The fact of the matter is we're probably going to win the division, almost certainly make a wild card, have a QB who will give us a chance to win any given game, and along the way we're going to lose some games where this team just doesn't feel like showing up.  That's what defines this era of the Steelers and I'm okay with it.

On another note, not sure what else they're supposed to do about the defense. We're shit outta luck without Bud Dupree but it sounded like he was ready to make the next step and be our best pass rusher and he is obviously missed. As much as the secondary sucks we just invested our top 2 picks into it and traded for another top 10 pick, so you can't say they aren't trying. Cam and Tuitt are the two guys who seem to be under-performing most right now so I guess you need to light a fire under their asses somehow. At this point I think you need to just pray for Bud to come back 100% midseason, hope Burns and Davis learn to tackle as the season goes on, and hope we can just outscore everyone in a shootout until then. That's a lot of hoping for best case scenarios but to me this seems like more of a problem of individual players under-performing than any kind of scheme or coaching issue.
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:25 am

I said in another thread that I'd rather see us flying under the radar than ranked #1 in several PRs.
I'm pretty sure this game takes the #1 ranking away unless we masquerade as the Patriots* and we get a pass.

I hope this is a wake up call. I was thinking the same thing Queenstown about blitzing. What's up with that? Have we blitzed yet this year? And another thing. Why does it take a blitz to get to the QB anyway. Didn't Butler say Tuitt/Heyward would both have double digit sacks? Where's the evidence?
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kirklandrules

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PostSubject: Re: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:37 am

@QueenstownPa wrote:
@kirklandrules wrote:
At some point, the players have to play the game. If the players go out and execute yesterday, the coaches would have looked like geniuses.

Like I mentioned in another thread, you chalk this up to a butt whipping and move on. The team really didn't play well in almost every phase of the game. Think about KC!

Of course the players have to play but when the game plan is systematically failing you have to find another way.  This is why you see so many games where the first half and second half all diametrically opposed.....It's not because the players decide at half time to play better, it's because coaching made some changes to what wasn't working.

So you're saying the Steelers didn't make halftime adjustments? Just because they didn't have a dramatic come-from-behind victory doesn't mean the coaches were adjusting to find something that worked. Hence my statement, the players still have to execute. You can't gameplan your way out of poor play and that's exactly what I was watching Sunday.

For instance, on the Sproles catch and run TD, the Steelers were playing Cover 3. Cockrell was responsible for the deep 3rd on that side of the field. When Shazier let Sproles run past him, he knew Cockrell was back there to help (so he ran toward Wentz to stop the run). But Cockrell left his zone and stayed with the receiver who ran past him. He didn't do his job. What strategy change would you make to stop that?

Or how about David DeCastro having a piss poor game? Fletcher Cox just abused him. What changes would you suggest to make that better?

Or your #2 receiver dropped 3 passes (one for an opening drive TD) and your backup receiver couldn't fight for another TD that resulted in a pick?

Or your franchise QB was off target for the past two weeks?

Or how about at one point you had 3 of your starting LBs out and were running with LJ Fort (who is no Shazier), Vince Williams (who I like, but we're seeing he's not better than Timmons), and Chickillo (who has potential, but isn't starter material yet)?

I admire Tomin for saying they were out-coached and he's right that they could have done better. But IMO that ass-beating belongs more on the players that were on the field and less on the coaches making the calls (and adjustments).
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Drizztbob

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PostSubject: Re: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:53 am

I think it was everyone on this boards fault that the team lost. We should have been typing more of our opinions. Lol

Fug it, I'm over it. Time to see if we can stop KC. I hear the prodigal son, the OTHER JC is making his return against us because the coaching staff said we couldn't stop a screen pass to someones dead grandmother.

Let's see if our defense is as wet paper soft as it was last week and if Ben remembers to eat his Wheaties or not. Because everyone was hot garbage last week.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:36 pm

What's wrong with the Pittsburgh Steelers' pass rush, and how can it be fixed?

By JIM WEXELL
Published: Sept. 27, 2016

The Pittsburgh Steelers, through three games, have one sack.

And that sack was a bit of a scramble sack without any yardage lost.

Sixteen times nothing is nothing, and that's the projected yardage-lost total for the Steelers' pass rush in Keith Butler's second season as defensive coordinator.

They used to call long-time "Blitzburgh" coordinator Dick LeBeau "Coach Dad," and, no, this is not your father's pass rush anymore.

Ba-dum.

And there are reasons, some warranted, some not, but one needs explained:

Before the outside linebackers continue as lightning rods for criticism in a town that reveres its long line of wicked edge rushers, realize that they're not the edge rushers of the LeBeau era.

The base defense remains, in name, a 3-4, but it's hardly what's being used anymore. Ask starting nose tackle Javon Hargrave, he, the rookie, of 37 snaps through three games.

That wasn't even a big snack for Casey Hampton back in the glory days of the 3-4 outside linebacker.

What that means, with the starting nose tackle on the field 18 perent of the time, is that the nickel package has clearly become the predominant package, or base.

And that means the outside linebackers -- college defensive ends drafted to stand up because they're smaller and possess enough dexterity to drop into coverage -- are now playing defensive end, over tackles, in a four-man front. They are no longer edge players lining up over tight ends in a five-man front.

That also means the 3-4 defensive ends -- drafted as "tweener" college ends/tackles -- are now lining up over guards and centers as tackles in a four-man front.

Smaller might mean quicker and better in pass coverage, but it also has meant this: 1 sack for 0 yards lost.

Of course, this four-man front, this "nickel," was the predominant alignment last season, when Butler replaced LeBeau and oversaw an increase in sacks from 33 to 47.

But the pass defense finished 31st last season, and Butler late in the season agonized about the amount of blitzing he was calling. His lament became, "We've got to get there with four," and he and Mike Tomlin even hosted former "Tampa 2" maestro Monte Kiffin for a week of practice.

to read rest of article:

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2016/09/27/whats-wrong-with-the-pittsburgh-steelers-pass-rush-and-how-can-it-be-fixed/agpghbq/

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PostSubject: Re: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:04 am

After reading this I realize blitzing may not be the answer unless we have DBs who can hold their own. Keep everything in front and tackle. Key word being TACKLE. We saw very little of that last week. I'm hoping Hargrave becomes the plug like Hampton was and draw some double teams to free up someone.
If something doesn't develop I'm afraid we'll be watching Tuitt, Heyward, gassed out by the 3rd quarter every week.
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PostSubject: Re: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:15 am

My biggest worry from the first three games this season is the complete lack of a pass rush. At times we're getting pressure but it's pretty sad that we're three entire games into the season now and have one sack to show for it. That's 180 minutes of football across 12 quarters and one entire sack, and the player that has that sack is Arthur Moats. Harrison, Jones, Fort, Chickillo, Timmons, and Williams have all seen playing time at LB, and then you have Tuitt, Hargrave, and Heyward seeing the most snaps in the DL rotation and no sacks to show from any of them either. It's kind of ridiculous, I mean I feel like last season the defense took a step forward. The secondary was leaky but at least we got to the QB enough that we were forcing turnovers. Now we're playing these zone coverages and not blitzing and we're giving opposing quarterbacks all day to sit back in the pocket and pick apart the defense. We need to get back to being Blitzburgh again, getting after the QB, getting into their heads, and forcing them to make mistakes. This bend but don't break stuff is maddening, between watching my Hawkeyes play this bland defensive scheme, and the Steelers now employing it, it's about enough to give a guy a coronary.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:49 am

I totally agree Iowa. Every play against Philly while on defense I'm counting out loud "2,3,4,5 seconds" to throw the ball. Give ANY NFL QB that kind of time and no matter if you had Rod Woodson, Deon Sanders, and Dick Lane as CB's, you are completing passes. A good pass rush can cover up a sub par secondary and folks, that's what we have. Sending 3 or 4 linemen each down, is not getting the job done and for the love of god, I hope Keith Butler can see that now after 3 weeks of play.

We need to be running stunts, CB blitz packages, dual LB outside blitzes at least once in every defensive series. I didn't see a SINGLE ONE all game last week! That's absurd against a rookie QB who we needed to rattle. That's the only way we ever beat Flacco too is by hitting him hard once or twice, and he is garbage the rest of the game. If we give opposing QB's time to sip Mai Tai's and do their nails in the backfield, we are finished this year.

STEP UP THE BLITZ PACKAGES BUTLER...(because I know he reads this kind of stuff)

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PostSubject: Re: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:21 pm

@Drizztbob wrote:
I totally agree Iowa.  Every play against Philly while on defense I'm counting out loud "2,3,4,5 seconds" to throw the ball.  Give ANY NFL QB that kind of time and no matter if you had Rod Woodson, Deon Sanders, and Dick Lane as CB's, you are completing passes.  A good pass rush can cover up a sub par secondary and folks, that's what we have.  Sending 3 or 4 linemen each down, is not getting the job done and for the love of god, I hope Keith Butler can see that now after 3 weeks of play.

We need to be running stunts, CB blitz packages, dual LB outside blitzes at least once in every defensive series.  I didn't see a SINGLE ONE all game last week!  That's absurd against a rookie QB who we needed to rattle.  That's the only way we ever beat Flacco too is by hitting him hard once or twice, and he is garbage the rest of the game.  If we give opposing QB's time to sip Mai Tai's and do their nails in the backfield, we are finished this year.

STEP UP THE BLITZ PACKAGES BUTLER...(because I know he reads this kind of stuff)
He finished reading this and slowly took off his glasses and put them down on the table deeply pondering thought.
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PostSubject: Re: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:51 pm

@Hawaii 5-0 wrote:
What's wrong with the Pittsburgh Steelers' pass rush, and how can it be fixed?

[...]But the pass defense finished 31st last season, and Butler late in the season agonized about the amount of blitzing he was calling. His lament became, "We've got to get there with four," and he and Mike Tomlin even hosted former "Tampa 2" maestro Monte Kiffin for a week of practice.

to read rest of article:

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2016/09/27/whats-wrong-with-the-pittsburgh-steelers-pass-rush-and-how-can-it-be-fixed/agpghbq/

That article says a lot. I think we can officially call it. We're not a 3-4 D anymore. We're a Tampa 2. Read the description here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_2

Some nuggets from the Wiki article:

Quote :
The scheme is known for its simple format, speed, and the aggressive mentality of its players. Tampa 2 teams are known as gang tacklers with tremendous team speed, and practice to always run to the ball. It also requires a hard hitting secondary to cause turnovers.

Quote :
Typically, the [Tampa 2] players don't have the prototypical size of other NFL defenders. Instead, stress is put on speed, smarts and flawless tackling. [...] A quick defensive line is a must, but the middle linebacker position is the straw that stirs the drink.

Quote :
The defensive linemen in this scheme have to be quick and agile enough to create pressure on the quarterback without the aid of a blitz from either the linebackers or the secondary, with the defensive tackle in the nose position having above-average tackling skills to help stop runs.

Quote :
The three linebackers, two cornerbacks and two safeties are responsible for covering the middle of the field. The outside linebackers' general zone is between the cornerbacks, covering the area of the field from the line of scrimmage to 10 yards back. The middle linebacker must have better-than-average speed, and additional skills to be able to read the play and either maintain his central position to help the outside linebackers cover short passes, drop behind the linebackers in coverage and protect the zone of the field behind the outside linebackers from 11-20 yards out, or run up to the line of scrimmage to help assist in stopping the runs.

Quote :
The Tampa 2 is particularly effective against teams who are playing from behind, because it limits big plays. It forces offenses to be patient and to settle for short gains and time-consuming drives. This may be due to the nature of the "bend-but-don't-break" 2-deep zone coverage scheme and responsibilities safeties play in the Tampa 2.

Quote :
Teams that have been successful against this defense have managed to run the ball up the middle past the defensive tackles, or throw passes in the seams between the outside linebackers and the cornerbacks (often the most effective receiver against a Tampa 2 defense is a tight end, since they often line up against this seam).

Doesn't this describe us to a "T"?
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effyou515



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PostSubject: Re: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:07 pm

@jak341 wrote:
@Hawaii 5-0 wrote:
What's wrong with the Pittsburgh Steelers' pass rush, and how can it be fixed?

[...]But the pass defense finished 31st last season, and Butler late in the season agonized about the amount of blitzing he was calling. His lament became, "We've got to get there with four," and he and Mike Tomlin even hosted former "Tampa 2" maestro Monte Kiffin for a week of practice.

to read rest of article:

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2016/09/27/whats-wrong-with-the-pittsburgh-steelers-pass-rush-and-how-can-it-be-fixed/agpghbq/

That article says a lot. I think we can officially call it. We're not a 3-4 D anymore. We're a Tampa 2. Read the description here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_2

Some nuggets from the Wiki article:

Quote :
The scheme is known for its simple format, speed, and the aggressive mentality of its players. Tampa 2 teams are known as gang tacklers with tremendous team speed, and practice to always run to the ball. It also requires a hard hitting secondary to cause turnovers.

Quote :
Typically, the [Tampa 2] players don't have the prototypical size of other NFL defenders. Instead, stress is put on speed, smarts and flawless tackling. [...] A quick defensive line is a must, but the middle linebacker position is the straw that stirs the drink.

Quote :
The defensive linemen in this scheme have to be quick and agile enough to create pressure on the quarterback without the aid of a blitz from either the linebackers or the secondary, with the defensive tackle in the nose position having above-average tackling skills to help stop runs.

Quote :
The three linebackers, two cornerbacks and two safeties are responsible for covering the middle of the field. The outside linebackers' general zone is between the cornerbacks, covering the area of the field from the line of scrimmage to 10 yards back. The middle linebacker must have better-than-average speed, and additional skills to be able to read the play and either maintain his central position to help the outside linebackers cover short passes, drop behind the linebackers in coverage and protect the zone of the field behind the outside linebackers from 11-20 yards out, or run up to the line of scrimmage to help assist in stopping the runs.

Quote :
The Tampa 2 is particularly effective against teams who are playing from behind, because it limits big plays. It forces offenses to be patient and to settle for short gains and time-consuming drives. This may be due to the nature of the "bend-but-don't-break" 2-deep zone coverage scheme and responsibilities safeties play in the Tampa 2.

Quote :
Teams that have been successful against this defense have managed to run the ball up the middle past the defensive tackles, or throw passes in the seams between the outside linebackers and the cornerbacks (often the most effective receiver against a Tampa 2 defense is a tight end, since they often line up against this seam).

Doesn't this describe us to a "T"?

tampa 2 works better as a 4-3 front then a 3-4 front tampa 2 traces its root to the Steelers 70s steel curtain. with the draft pick of speedy Ryan Shazier the prefect MLB for the 4-3 defense, Bud Dupree great weight and speed for the 4-3 DE, Hargrove and Tuitt athletic and great weight for the 4-3 defense, but there still more pieces to put in place the OLBs.

I'm old school would like to see Steel Curtain 2 the NFL has figured out the 3-4 blitzburg defense but you can some of the fire blitzes out of a 4-3 defense.

so now the young one can now trash this.

hell the Steelers might be keeping Samarko Thomas around to be a 4-3 OLB hits like brick and good enough coverage skills for an OLB. the other side a OLB that's less hits like brick but better in pass defense.

I say lets be simple where your base defense can play run and nickel defense with out a change of players and your nickel defense plays like a dime defense.

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IowaSteeler927

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PostSubject: Re: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:15 am

@Steelcitian wrote:
@Drizztbob wrote:
I totally agree Iowa.  Every play against Philly while on defense I'm counting out loud "2,3,4,5 seconds" to throw the ball.  Give ANY NFL QB that kind of time and no matter if you had Rod Woodson, Deon Sanders, and Dick Lane as CB's, you are completing passes.  A good pass rush can cover up a sub par secondary and folks, that's what we have.  Sending 3 or 4 linemen each down, is not getting the job done and for the love of god, I hope Keith Butler can see that now after 3 weeks of play.

We need to be running stunts, CB blitz packages, dual LB outside blitzes at least once in every defensive series.  I didn't see a SINGLE ONE all game last week!  That's absurd against a rookie QB who we needed to rattle.  That's the only way we ever beat Flacco too is by hitting him hard once or twice, and he is garbage the rest of the game.  If we give opposing QB's time to sip Mai Tai's and do their nails in the backfield, we are finished this year.

STEP UP THE BLITZ PACKAGES BUTLER...(because I know he reads this kind of stuff)
He finished reading this and slowly took off his glasses and put them down on the table deeply pondering thought.



This made me laugh when I really needed a laugh. I love this forum!

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PostSubject: Re: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:47 pm

@Steelcitian wrote:

He finished reading this and slowly took off his glasses and put them down on the table deeply pondering thought.

While squeezing the bridge of his nose, wincing, inhaling deeply, and nodding.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:12 am

Is it fixed now?

Steelers get bounce-back win by dominating Chiefs

Maybe it was the pregame pep talk from Hall of Fame linebacker Kevin Greene. Maybe it was the return of Le'Veon Bell. Or maybe it was the chance to show that last weekend's performance was an aberration.

Whatever the reason, the Steelers found redemption Sunday night, rebounding from the most lopsided loss in Mike Tomlin's tenure with one of their most complete performances in recent memory.


Read the rest of the article here.
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PostSubject: Re: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:51 pm

Butler blitzed from the first play...WOW WHAT A DIFFERENCE.

Told you he read this forum...

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PostSubject: Re: How do you fix "this" shlt?   Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:22 pm

Quote :
@effyou515 wrote:
I'm old school would like to see Steel Curtain 2 the NFL has figured out the 3-4 blitzburg defense but you can some of the fire blitzes out of a 4-3 defense.



i disagree.  there is zero evidence to point out that the 3-4 is any more "figured out" ,than the 4-3 tampa 2. the problem isn't the scheme , it's the personnel on the field.  if you don't have two solid pass rushing OLBer's then it is not going to be effective. the steelers have been wiffing big time on the OLBer draft picks and have been trying to compensate by drafting faster ,quicker down linemen like hargrave praying that they can pick up the slack of their shitty draft choices.

4 out of the top 5 sack defenses last year were 3-4 defenses and 4 out the top 5 defenses over all were 3-4 defenses.

sacks by team
1. denver 3-4
2. NE 4-3
3. Pitt 3-4
4. KC 3-4
5. Houston 3-4

top defenses
1. Denver 3-4
2. Seattle 4-3
3. Houston 3-4
4. NY Jets 3-4
5. Arizona 3-4

so far this year 7 out of the top 10 sack leaders are OLBer's in a 3-4 defense.
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