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 Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'

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IowaSteeler927

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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:30 pm

@vasteeler wrote:
so i see crash is back...great Rolling Eyes

Because he has nothing better to do than to come here and create more accounts that we'll eventually ban. Oh well, gives us something to do I suppose.

Not like he makes it difficult to figure out who it is anyways. Just posting the word "Haley" for him to read gets a reaction equivalent to a vampire getting splashed with holy water.

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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:44 pm

Terry should just stick with what he's good at these days...telling good 'ol boy yarns and giving aw shucks speeches

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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:47 pm

He's a phony. You watch, next time he's in Pittsburgh doing his one man act he'll kiss Tomlin's ass.
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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:48 pm

@TheConfluence wrote:
And how many times do you people mention me when I'm not around?  

That's what I thought.  

Remember, 15 minutes left in their season:  Todd's preferred offense went to the bench.  

MY (and Ben's) preferred offense went on the field and 21 points in 15 minutes.  

You're welcome.  
.....uhhh cant say youre mentioned at all actually

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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:03 pm

I can just see it now, Steelers at the winners shuttle after the Super Bowl, Mike Tomlin gets interviewed and he thanks Terry Bradshaw for motivating his team. Terry would have to be given a ring.
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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:08 am

Seems that Pittsburgh has always had a love hate relationship with Terry B. And vice versa.

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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:01 am

@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
@solardave wrote:


You make great points but is the head coach not involved in the draft process? Isn't being able to draft well part of being a really good coach. They have scouts and a GM but doesn't Tomlin have a say? My argument would be all the games against inferior teams like the old Raiders, Browns and teams with losing records that we could not beat when we needed to. Poor play is one thing but if you have players who think all they have to do is show up to beat teams like this IMO it is the head coaches job to change that mentality. That's my knock on Tomlin. That and 2 point conversions at the wrong time.  

When is the College football season??  I know there is spring practice, but do they start up in July or August and then the season runs in the fall?

How much time do you really think a head football coach of an NFL team has to evaluate potential talent of NCAA players from July to January, or do you think he is too busy preparing the NFL team he coaches to win games from OTA's to January??

I believe NFL head coaches rely heavily on team scouting department and scouts to inform them of talent.  I think the GM likely has more daily or weekly communication with scouts and time to go see players play on Saturday.  I think an NFL head coach has to rely on advice from Scouting, much in the way I have to rely on my Investment Advisor to give me info on where to invest for retirement, because I am too busy working at my job and living my life to know what he knows about investments.

I think an NFL Head coach is tasked with Coaching a lot more than talent evaluation and therefore probably doesn't have the appropriate knowledge to be prominent in the War Room on draft day as many fans might think.  Maybe that is why Cowher wanted Shaun Andrews and the GM, Scouts and Owners selected Ben Roethilsberger in the draft.

I get it. He's busy. I've seen him at the combine checking out players. I know players visit before the draft. Doesn't Tomlin meet with them then? I never said I thought the draft was entirely on him. Would you say Noll was to busy to be involved in the draft? If so was he just a really lucky coach when he led the team to 4 SBs?
Noll had talent like we'll never see again. With Tomlin we give him credit for winning last week and the week before for taking a banged up bunch of players and beating 2 division rivals in a row. He's done a great job lately. If we agree with that statement then he deserves blame for losses to sub-par teams. I'm saying as a head coach if you get credit for beating good teams you should accept blame for losing to inferior teams. Yes we make it to the playoffs but what seed would we be if we beat the likes of lousy teams past? I.E. Tampa,Cleveland,Miami,Oakland. My biggest6 knock on Tomlin is the unnecessary losses to shitty teams after saying we were going to "unleash hell".
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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:43 am

@solardave wrote:
@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
@solardave wrote:


You make great points but is the head coach not involved in the draft process? Isn't being able to draft well part of being a really good coach. They have scouts and a GM but doesn't Tomlin have a say? My argument would be all the games against inferior teams like the old Raiders, Browns and teams with losing records that we could not beat when we needed to. Poor play is one thing but if you have players who think all they have to do is show up to beat teams like this IMO it is the head coaches job to change that mentality. That's my knock on Tomlin. That and 2 point conversions at the wrong time.  

When is the College football season??  I know there is spring practice, but do they start up in July or August and then the season runs in the fall?

How much time do you really think a head football coach of an NFL team has to evaluate potential talent of NCAA players from July to January, or do you think he is too busy preparing the NFL team he coaches to win games from OTA's to January??

I believe NFL head coaches rely heavily on team scouting department and scouts to inform them of talent.  I think the GM likely has more daily or weekly communication with scouts and time to go see players play on Saturday.  I think an NFL head coach has to rely on advice from Scouting, much in the way I have to rely on my Investment Advisor to give me info on where to invest for retirement, because I am too busy working at my job and living my life to know what he knows about investments.

I think an NFL Head coach is tasked with Coaching a lot more than talent evaluation and therefore probably doesn't have the appropriate knowledge to be prominent in the War Room on draft day as many fans might think.  Maybe that is why Cowher wanted Shaun Andrews and the GM, Scouts and Owners selected Ben Roethilsberger in the draft.

I get it. He's busy. I've seen him at the combine checking out players. I know players visit before the draft. Doesn't Tomlin meet with them then? I never said I thought the draft was entirely on him. Would you say Noll was to busy to be involved in the draft? If so was he just a really lucky coach when he led the team to 4 SBs?
Noll had talent like we'll never see again. With Tomlin we give him credit for winning last week and the week before for taking a banged up bunch of players and beating 2 division rivals in a row. He's done a great job lately. If we agree with that statement then he deserves blame for losses to sub-par teams. I'm saying as a head coach if you get credit for beating good teams you should accept blame for losing to inferior teams. Yes we make it to the playoffs but what seed would we be if we beat the likes of lousy teams past? I.E. Tampa,Cleveland,Miami,Oakland. My biggest6 knock on Tomlin is the unnecessary losses to shitty teams after saying we were going to "unleash hell".

Honestly I get the unleash hell thing, he was simply trying to motivate the players. Sometimes a little tough talk wakes guys up. In that case it didn't happen, it's not going to work all the time. It's a tactic among many different tactics that coaches employ as motivation.

I agree though, the struggles against mediocre teams need to stop. The great teams demonstrate a lot more consistency, that's something we need to sort out, and it looks like we're on the right path currently.

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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:51 am

@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
@solardave wrote:
@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
@solardave wrote:


You make great points but is the head coach not involved in the draft process? Isn't being able to draft well part of being a really good coach. They have scouts and a GM but doesn't Tomlin have a say? My argument would be all the games against inferior teams like the old Raiders, Browns and teams with losing records that we could not beat when we needed to. Poor play is one thing but if you have players who think all they have to do is show up to beat teams like this IMO it is the head coaches job to change that mentality. That's my knock on Tomlin. That and 2 point conversions at the wrong time.  

When is the College football season??  I know there is spring practice, but do they start up in July or August and then the season runs in the fall?

How much time do you really think a head football coach of an NFL team has to evaluate potential talent of NCAA players from July to January, or do you think he is too busy preparing the NFL team he coaches to win games from OTA's to January??

I believe NFL head coaches rely heavily on team scouting department and scouts to inform them of talent.  I think the GM likely has more daily or weekly communication with scouts and time to go see players play on Saturday.  I think an NFL head coach has to rely on advice from Scouting, much in the way I have to rely on my Investment Advisor to give me info on where to invest for retirement, because I am too busy working at my job and living my life to know what he knows about investments.

I think an NFL Head coach is tasked with Coaching a lot more than talent evaluation and therefore probably doesn't have the appropriate knowledge to be prominent in the War Room on draft day as many fans might think.  Maybe that is why Cowher wanted Shaun Andrews and the GM, Scouts and Owners selected Ben Roethilsberger in the draft.

I get it. He's busy. I've seen him at the combine checking out players. I know players visit before the draft. Doesn't Tomlin meet with them then? I never said I thought the draft was entirely on him. Would you say Noll was to busy to be involved in the draft? If so was he just a really lucky coach when he led the team to 4 SBs?
Noll had talent like we'll never see again. With Tomlin we give him credit for winning last week and the week before for taking a banged up bunch of players and beating 2 division rivals in a row. He's done a great job lately. If we agree with that statement then he deserves blame for losses to sub-par teams. I'm saying as a head coach if you get credit for beating good teams you should accept blame for losing to inferior teams. Yes we make it to the playoffs but what seed would we be if we beat the likes of lousy teams past? I.E. Tampa,Cleveland,Miami,Oakland. My biggest6 knock on Tomlin is the unnecessary losses to shitty teams after saying we were going to "unleash hell".

Honestly I get the unleash hell thing, he was simply trying to motivate the players. Sometimes a little tough talk wakes guys up. In that case it didn't happen, it's not going to work all the time. It's a tactic among many different tactics that coaches employ as motivation.

I agree though, the struggles against mediocre teams need to stop. The great teams demonstrate a lot more consistency, that's something we need to sort out, and it looks like we're on the right path currently.

We have looked a lot better lately and I'll say this. If we go deep in the playoffs and maybe win it all I'll be the first one singing praises to Tomlin and the great job he has done. However it turns out if next year we see more of the same BS losing to the Clevelands (we have a new category) I'll be bitching again.
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El-Gonzo Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:41 am

@solardave wrote:
@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
@solardave wrote:


You make great points but is the head coach not involved in the draft process? Isn't being able to draft well part of being a really good coach. They have scouts and a GM but doesn't Tomlin have a say? My argument would be all the games against inferior teams like the old Raiders, Browns and teams with losing records that we could not beat when we needed to. Poor play is one thing but if you have players who think all they have to do is show up to beat teams like this IMO it is the head coaches job to change that mentality. That's my knock on Tomlin. That and 2 point conversions at the wrong time.  

When is the College football season??  I know there is spring practice, but do they start up in July or August and then the season runs in the fall?

How much time do you really think a head football coach of an NFL team has to evaluate potential talent of NCAA players from July to January, or do you think he is too busy preparing the NFL team he coaches to win games from OTA's to January??

I believe NFL head coaches rely heavily on team scouting department and scouts to inform them of talent.  I think the GM likely has more daily or weekly communication with scouts and time to go see players play on Saturday.  I think an NFL head coach has to rely on advice from Scouting, much in the way I have to rely on my Investment Advisor to give me info on where to invest for retirement, because I am too busy working at my job and living my life to know what he knows about investments.

I think an NFL Head coach is tasked with Coaching a lot more than talent evaluation and therefore probably doesn't have the appropriate knowledge to be prominent in the War Room on draft day as many fans might think.  Maybe that is why Cowher wanted Shaun Andrews and the GM, Scouts and Owners selected Ben Roethilsberger in the draft.

I get it. He's busy. I've seen him at the combine checking out players. I know players visit before the draft. Doesn't Tomlin meet with them then? I never said I thought the draft was entirely on him. Would you say Noll was to busy to be involved in the draft? If so was he just a really lucky coach when he led the team to 4 SBs?
Noll had talent like we'll never see again. With Tomlin we give him credit for winning last week and the week before for taking a banged up bunch of players and beating 2 division rivals in a row. He's done a great job lately. If we agree with that statement then he deserves blame for losses to sub-par teams. I'm saying as a head coach if you get credit for beating good teams you should accept blame for losing to inferior teams. Yes we make it to the playoffs but what seed would we be if we beat the likes of lousy teams past? I.E. Tampa,Cleveland,Miami,Oakland. My biggest6 knock on Tomlin is the unnecessary losses to shitty teams after saying we were going to "unleash hell".

Bill Nunn is the well documented architect of those 70's Steelers. He is the scout that found a lot of those great Steelers playing in smaller and traditionally black colleges that many scouts of the day didn't spend time scouting. So no, neither Tomlin, Noll, Cowher were too busy to be involved in the draft, but the bulk of the work scouting, ranking and stuff leading up to the draft isn't done by the Head Coach, so I don't blame the head coach for not having talent. I bet a lot of work was done by scouts and staff before Tomlin ever got to the Georgia Pro Day and met with Jarvis Jones, and that was likely the first time he saw Jones in person.

Coaches jobs are to put their players in the best positions to win. If that is positional, teaching of fundamentals, building a culture or identity, motivation, and a few others, then great. I rarely put weekly game wins and losses on the coach, because there are some 40 players that have to perform on gameday. The coaches do all they can to put them in position to win on Sunday and even if they get outcoached, there is a chance to make adjustments on the fly or larger adjustments at the half.

I don't give Tomlin credit for this past win. I don't blame him if AB doesn't stretch across the line and the Steelers lose. Players have to play and the coaches helped put them in position. I do blame somebody for not having the defensive players ready to tackle and play to the whistle. Lots of guys standing around watching the other guys miss tackles and I think Butler has to do better with his defensive players.
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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:53 am

From what I understand from seeing a behind the scenes thing the Steelers did a couple years ago. A lot of the scouting is done in season. Colbert and his scouts watch a lot of games and guys throughout the college season. KC made it seem like they often will follow a guy over a year at times. It was interesting to see. Anyhow. I got a chuckle out of Tomlin's response and he's right about the word great- I feel the same way when people talk about elite QBs. I'll always love Terry but I really think he was out of bounds here. Tomlin to me is an above average coach and I'm glad he's our coach.
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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:31 am

This has backfired on Bradshaw big time

Another burn of Bradshaw by Mike Florio of PFT, who points out Terry's comments on Tomlin have become the standard for someone who has not played since the early 80s and has an act that has passed its sell by date

Terry Bradshaw’s criticism of Mike Tomlin was bizarre, gratuitous, inaccurate

When is the last time in the past 15 years that Bradshaw has said anything remotely insightful about the NFL? He rarely if ever articulates theories or ideas that provoke thought or serve as the launching point for a meaningful discussion.

That’s not really his role. He’s a personality. A storyteller. Gregarious, funny, affable, entertaining, and (typically) non-threatening. He’s that kooky, unfiltered uncle who can’t get a sentence out without tripping over his tongue and who routinely blurts out all sorts of incomprehensible nonsense when trying to read highlights.

And he’s fine with that. Bradshaw knows his role, and he gladly embraces the profit potential of being football’s version of Sonny Bono — a lovable, unpolished rube who can mask substantive deficiencies, absence of preparation, and lack of attention to detail with an “aw shucks” and a belly laugh....

Bradshaw swung and missed so badly on this one that it has prompted a long-overdue assessment of what he actually brings to the table, beyond comic relief.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/27/terry-bradshaws-criticism-of-mike-tomlin-was-bizarre-gratuitous-inaccurate/
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El-Gonzo Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:18 pm

@Atlanta Dan wrote:
This has backfired on Bradshaw big time

Another burn of Bradshaw by Mike Florio of PFT, who points out Terry's comments on Tomlin have become the standard for someone who has not played since the early 80s and has an act that has passed its sell by date

Terry Bradshaw’s criticism of Mike Tomlin was bizarre, gratuitous, inaccurate

When is the last time in the past 15 years that Bradshaw has said anything remotely insightful about the NFL? He rarely if ever articulates theories or ideas that provoke thought or serve as the launching point for a meaningful discussion.

That’s not really his role. He’s a personality. A storyteller. Gregarious, funny, affable, entertaining, and (typically) non-threatening. He’s that kooky, unfiltered uncle who can’t get a sentence out without tripping over his tongue and who routinely blurts out all sorts of incomprehensible nonsense when trying to read highlights.

And he’s fine with that. Bradshaw knows his role, and he gladly embraces the profit potential of being football’s version of Sonny Bono — a lovable, unpolished rube who can mask substantive deficiencies, absence of preparation, and lack of attention to detail with an “aw shucks” and a belly laugh....

Bradshaw swung and missed so badly on this one that it has prompted a long-overdue assessment of what he actually brings to the table, beyond comic relief.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/27/terry-bradshaws-criticism-of-mike-tomlin-was-bizarre-gratuitous-inaccurate/

Great article, thanks for sharing.

"kooky, unfiltered uncle who cant get a sentence out..." ..."unpolished rube" are a couple phrases that really hit it on the mark. TB is that kooky unfiltered rube who when he tries to bring something serious, it just turns out to be a wreck. Movin on to Cleveland....movin' on.
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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:24 am

@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
@solardave wrote:
@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
@solardave wrote:


You make great points but is the head coach not involved in the draft process? Isn't being able to draft well part of being a really good coach. They have scouts and a GM but doesn't Tomlin have a say? My argument would be all the games against inferior teams like the old Raiders, Browns and teams with losing records that we could not beat when we needed to. Poor play is one thing but if you have players who think all they have to do is show up to beat teams like this IMO it is the head coaches job to change that mentality. That's my knock on Tomlin. That and 2 point conversions at the wrong time.  

When is the College football season??  I know there is spring practice, but do they start up in July or August and then the season runs in the fall?

How much time do you really think a head football coach of an NFL team has to evaluate potential talent of NCAA players from July to January, or do you think he is too busy preparing the NFL team he coaches to win games from OTA's to January??

I believe NFL head coaches rely heavily on team scouting department and scouts to inform them of talent.  I think the GM likely has more daily or weekly communication with scouts and time to go see players play on Saturday.  I think an NFL head coach has to rely on advice from Scouting, much in the way I have to rely on my Investment Advisor to give me info on where to invest for retirement, because I am too busy working at my job and living my life to know what he knows about investments.

I think an NFL Head coach is tasked with Coaching a lot more than talent evaluation and therefore probably doesn't have the appropriate knowledge to be prominent in the War Room on draft day as many fans might think.  Maybe that is why Cowher wanted Shaun Andrews and the GM, Scouts and Owners selected Ben Roethilsberger in the draft.

I get it. He's busy. I've seen him at the combine checking out players. I know players visit before the draft. Doesn't Tomlin meet with them then? I never said I thought the draft was entirely on him. Would you say Noll was to busy to be involved in the draft? If so was he just a really lucky coach when he led the team to 4 SBs?
Noll had talent like we'll never see again. With Tomlin we give him credit for winning last week and the week before for taking a banged up bunch of players and beating 2 division rivals in a row. He's done a great job lately. If we agree with that statement then he deserves blame for losses to sub-par teams. I'm saying as a head coach if you get credit for beating good teams you should accept blame for losing to inferior teams. Yes we make it to the playoffs but what seed would we be if we beat the likes of lousy teams past? I.E. Tampa,Cleveland,Miami,Oakland. My biggest6 knock on Tomlin is the unnecessary losses to shitty teams after saying we were going to "unleash hell".

Bill Nunn is the well documented architect of those 70's Steelers.  He is the scout that found a lot of those great Steelers playing in smaller and traditionally black colleges that many scouts of the day didn't spend time scouting.  So no, neither Tomlin, Noll, Cowher were too busy to be involved in the draft, but the bulk of the work scouting, ranking and stuff leading up to the draft isn't done by the Head Coach, so I don't blame the head coach for not having talent.  I bet a lot of work was done by scouts and staff before Tomlin ever got to the Georgia Pro Day and met with Jarvis Jones, and that was likely the first time he saw Jones in person.

Coaches jobs are to put their players in the best positions to win.  If that is positional, teaching of fundamentals, building a culture or identity, motivation, and a few others, then great.  I rarely put weekly game wins and losses on the coach, because there are some 40 players that have to perform on gameday.  The coaches do all they can to put them in position to win on Sunday and even if they get outcoached, there is a chance to make adjustments on the fly or larger adjustments at the half.

I don't give Tomlin credit for this past win.  I don't blame him if AB doesn't stretch across the line and the Steelers lose.  Players have to play and the coaches helped put them in position.  I do blame somebody for not having the defensive players ready to tackle and play to the whistle.  Lots of guys standing around watching the other guys miss tackles and I think Butler has to do better with his defensive players.

I absolutely agree the players have to do their job. It's what they get paid to do. In the games where we play down to our competition some of what goes wrong is this: Players don't tackle on defense and special teams. Players drop passes and miss blocks. We have dumb penalties like hitting out of bounce or holding away from the play. This is on the players.
Here's where the coaches (Tomlin,Butler,Haley) come in. Stupid bubble passes, going for it on 4th & 3 when we're in field goal range. 2 point conversion attempts when they're either unnecessary or we are not doing diddly in the redzone. Not just once but 3 or 4 times in a game. It's these games where we go into the locker room at halftime and apparently these coaches are saying (like the guy who jumps off of the the 10 story building and halfway down he says:) "so far so good". Like I said I really like that lately the adjustments are being made. I love the extra O-lineman in and Bell's numbers reflect that. Munchak is an awesome coach. I really liked that last week we played some man coverage. We still have a few pieces and I hope next year's draft includes a middle LBer, backup QB for the future and D-line depth. I like that Tomlin doesn't care what people think. That's one quality of a great coach but if what you're doing isn't working at the time not caring just makes you stubborn. I believe the reason this franchise has 6 trophies is because we don't bring in a coaches every other season. Maybe it takes more than a handful of years to build a championship team. I admit I got spoiled watching us dominate in the 70's. Mean Joe saying in the huddle: "From this point on NO ONE gets past the 50 yd line"! Lambert saying: "That'll cool your ass off"! Maybe I'm getting to damn old for the cardiac kids type games we have played lately but If I have a heart attack watching the Steelers in a tight game I will have died doing what I love.
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El-Gonzo Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:56 am

Solardave, my first recollection of watching the Steelers was I think in 1978, so I get some of where you are coming from. But....bubble screens are part of football now, so just accept it. I was at a coaching clinic a few years ago and attended a session on how many different variations there are, so It has a place in an offense, as its really just an extended handoff.

As for 2 point converts and going for it on 4th down instead of kicking a 50 yard FG, well those have times and places in a coaches strategy and mindset that are justified as well IMO. Ask yourself this question...what coach has ever made a game type decision and not been questioned by the fanbase?

I'm saying just enjoy the ride, as there will always be things as fans we question, but as for Tomlin he isn't going anywhere in the next 10 years unless he quits.

On NFL this week Phil Simms, James Brown, Michael Irvin and Boomer Esiason brought up the Bradshaw comments. They all said Terry is a colleague and to some a friend, but believed he was way off base with his statements. Simms said he has sat down with Tomlin some 40 times and he knows his x's and o's, but when he walks into the room you sit up a bit because he has a presence and he is the man. That presence is part of an attitude that holds the players and coaches accountable. Irvin went on to say that coaches today have to work collegially with their players because they are all making huge salaries, instead of the old days when there was more a dictator type mentality on a team, so how Chuck coached in the 70's isn't the same as how coaches do things today.
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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:42 pm



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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:57 am

@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
Solardave, my first recollection of watching the Steelers was I think in 1978, so I get some of where you are coming from.  But....bubble screens are part of football now, so just accept it.  I was at a coaching clinic a few years ago and attended a session on how many different variations there are, so It has a place in an offense, as its really just an extended handoff.

As for 2 point converts and going for it on 4th down instead of kicking a 50 yard FG, well those have times and places in a coaches strategy and mindset that are justified as well IMO.  Ask yourself this question...what coach has ever made a game type decision and not been questioned by the fanbase?

I'm saying just enjoy the ride, as there will always be things as fans we question, but as for Tomlin he isn't going anywhere in the next 10 years unless he quits.  

On NFL this week Phil Simms, James Brown, Michael Irvin and Boomer Esiason brought up the Bradshaw comments.  They all said Terry is a colleague and to some a friend, but believed he was way off base with his statements.  Simms said he has sat down with Tomlin some 40 times and he knows his x's and o's, but when he walks into the room you sit up a bit because he has a presence and he is the man.  That presence is part of an attitude that holds the players and coaches accountable.  Irvin went on to say that coaches today have to work collegially with their players because they are all making huge salaries, instead of the old days when there was more a dictator type mentality on a team, so how Chuck coached in the 70's isn't the same as how coaches do things today.

I really enjoy and appreciate a civil discussion. You are one of the guys I respect because what you say makes sense and honestly on the days after a stupid loss when I say I' d like to shoot Tomlin and the rest of the staff you make valid points in his defense. Part of the appeal for me here is I can speak my mind even if I'm full of shit. For the record I only feel that way about 40% of the time.

Let me say this.Most of the guys on here can talk football better than me. I've never played organized football. I can't articulate the x's and o's. I've played pickup ball a lot. That is pretty much what I base my input on. That and watching the Steelers as much as humanly possible.I've always said I'm not a coach. Just a fan and a spoiled one who hates changes to the game if it makes it softer.I get it these guys need to be motivated in a different way than the Greene's and Lambert's.

I can see that this is now and will remain a pass first league. Fans want scoring and lots of it. As far as protecting players the league needs to have a level playing field. If big mobile QBs like Ben and Cam Newton get hit they need to call it every time. Not just once in a blue moon. It pisses me off to no end when I see Burfict holding the TE and peeling off to go helmet to helmet on the targeted receiver and no flag is thrown.
Where I believe I'm wrong is I take this frustration and lump it in with what I think is bad coaching and next thing you know I'm on the bandwagon calling for Tomlin's head.

Even though I'm too emotional (spoiled) when it comes to the Steelers but there's not another team I would jump ship for. Period.

I want nothing more than for Tomlin to go down as our best coach ever. Again what I'm seeing in the last 2 games leads me to believe if we score early and play sound defense there is no reason we can't win it all this year. That said do I think we will?  I think we still have a few pieces and some luck in the staying healthy department.
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El-Gonzo Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:13 am

@solardave wrote:
@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
Solardave, my first recollection of watching the Steelers was I think in 1978, so I get some of where you are coming from.  But....bubble screens are part of football now, so just accept it.  I was at a coaching clinic a few years ago and attended a session on how many different variations there are, so It has a place in an offense, as its really just an extended handoff.

As for 2 point converts and going for it on 4th down instead of kicking a 50 yard FG, well those have times and places in a coaches strategy and mindset that are justified as well IMO.  Ask yourself this question...what coach has ever made a game type decision and not been questioned by the fanbase?

I'm saying just enjoy the ride, as there will always be things as fans we question, but as for Tomlin he isn't going anywhere in the next 10 years unless he quits.  

On NFL this week Phil Simms, James Brown, Michael Irvin and Boomer Esiason brought up the Bradshaw comments.  They all said Terry is a colleague and to some a friend, but believed he was way off base with his statements.  Simms said he has sat down with Tomlin some 40 times and he knows his x's and o's, but when he walks into the room you sit up a bit because he has a presence and he is the man.  That presence is part of an attitude that holds the players and coaches accountable.  Irvin went on to say that coaches today have to work collegially with their players because they are all making huge salaries, instead of the old days when there was more a dictator type mentality on a team, so how Chuck coached in the 70's isn't the same as how coaches do things today.

I really enjoy and appreciate a civil discussion. You are one of the guys I respect because what you say makes sense and honestly on the days after a stupid loss when I say I' d like to shoot Tomlin and the rest of the staff you make valid points in his defense. Part of the appeal for me here is I can speak my mind even if I'm full of shit. For the record I only feel that way about 40% of the time.

Let me say this.Most of the guys on here can talk football better than me. I've never played organized football. I can't articulate the x's and o's. I've played pickup ball a lot. That is pretty much what I base my input on. That and watching the Steelers as much as humanly possible.I've always said I'm not a coach. Just a fan and a spoiled one who hates changes to the game if it makes it softer.I get it these guys need to be motivated in a different way than the Greene's and Lambert's.

I can see that this is now and will remain a pass first league. Fans want scoring and lots of it. As far as protecting players the league needs to have a level playing field. If big mobile QBs like Ben and Cam Newton get hit they need to call it every time. Not just once in a blue moon. It pisses me off to no end when I see Burfict holding the TE and peeling off to go helmet to helmet on the targeted receiver and no flag is thrown.
Where I believe I'm wrong is I take this frustration and lump it in with what I think is bad coaching and next thing you know I'm on the bandwagon calling for Tomlin's head.

Even though I'm too emotional (spoiled) when it comes to the Steelers but there's not another team I would jump ship for. Period.

I want nothing more than for Tomlin to go down as our best coach ever. Again what I'm seeing in the last 2 games leads me to believe if we score early and play sound defense there is no reason we can't win it all this year. That said do I think we will?  I think we still have a few pieces and some luck in the staying healthy department.

Solardave, thanks for the words, I also appreciate a good civil discussion(sometimes mixed with sarcasm). I've thought of this place as a virtual Steeler bar where I can discuss, joke, bitch with fellow fans.

I believe the toughest thing for fans to remember is that there are 31 other coaches in the NFL trying to beat our team. For every pass Ben throws, there are at least 6 guys trying to intercept it. For every tackle that Timmons, Shazier, Tuitt, etc try to make, there is somebody trying very hard and paid very well to block them. For some of us older fans, the thought of not having a FB is a tough transition to make, but we evolve with the game and the best thing we can do is enjoy it every Sunday, because...will getting upset about it really help?

Tomlin is a good coach and one we are fortunate to have as Steeler fans. Is he HOF worthy...not yet but give him another 10 years and we will see.
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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:57 am

I think most fans don't realize how hard it is for a team to get into the playoffs let alone do it regularly. I have said it before and will say it again the Steeler Nation fans have become quite spoiled over the years. Tomlin has made some bonehead calls, mistakes, decisions, as a head coach in 10 years who wouldn't? We are all human and we are all prone to lapses in judgment at times.

This is 100% Tomlin's team. They (the players) love him as a coach and he is figuring out how to get into the playoffs. It's a really young team as well, the Defense is getting progressively better every game. The rookies that started this year have gotten better and better in a trail by fire that not too many rookies ever do great at. If you look at the suspensions (Bryant, Bell), injuries (Gholson) the team that will be going into camp next year is going to be pretty damn solid all things considered.
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ImmaculateGreenePolamalu



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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:15 pm

@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
I think most fans don't realize how hard it is for a team to get into the playoffs let alone do it regularly. I have said it before and will say it again the Steeler Nation fans have become quite spoiled over the years. Tomlin has made some bonehead calls, mistakes, decisions, as a head coach in 10 years who wouldn't? We are all human and we are all prone to lapses in judgment at times.

This is 100% Tomlin's team. They (the players) love him as a coach and he is figuring out how to get into the playoffs. It's a really young team as well, the Defense is getting progressively better every game. The rookies that started this year have gotten better and better in a trail by fire that not too many rookies ever do great at. If you look at the suspensions (Bryant, Bell), injuries (Gholson) the team that will be going into camp next year is going to be pretty damn solid all things considered.
Great points. I think we're spoiled too. And you know what, I don't mind it. We're a successful franchise but I think perspective is needed here and you make some great points about the players loving Tomlin, the young defensive players- man I'm excited to see what Davis, Burns, and Hargrave can do, and we have had the suspensions and injuries as well. We're probably in the AFC championship last year if Burfict isn't a dirty asshole.
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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:42 pm

I've thought about this a little bit more, especially regarding Bradshaw's comments regarding the way him and Noll's relationship went during their careers.

Bradshaw, if I recall correctly, wanted more of a 'that-a-boy' coach during his playing career. Now he's making this type of comment towards Tomlin. Tomlin is exactly the type of coach Bradshaw wanted as a player and now he's going to come out and make negative comments about his coaching style?

I believe the Rooney's over the last 40 years have known exactly what type of coach was needed to be successful. In 1969 it was Chuck Noll, in 1992 Cowher, and in 2006 Tomlin. Each bringing their own personality to the forefront and at the same time it was what the team needed in the ever changing league.


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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:49 pm

@stlrtruck wrote:
I've thought about this a little bit more, especially regarding Bradshaw's comments regarding the way him and Noll's relationship went during their careers.

Bradshaw, if I recall correctly, wanted more of a 'that-a-boy' coach during his playing career.  Now he's making this type of comment towards Tomlin.  Tomlin is exactly the type of coach Bradshaw wanted as a player and now he's going to come out and make negative comments about his coaching style?

I believe the Rooney's over the last 40 years have known exactly what type of coach was needed to be successful.  In 1969 it was Chuck Noll, in 1992 Cowher, and in 2006 Tomlin.  Each bringing their own personality to the forefront and at the same time it was what the team needed in the ever changing league.

Spot on Truck! I love the way Bradshaw played, suffered, and won for this team. Sometimes I appreciate his opinions. Other times I don't. You bring up a great point about the Rooneys. One thing I've learned in my professional career is that you never dump on someone the boss hired. Bradshaw did just that, even if he doesn't collect a paycheck from the Rooneys any longer. Saying Tomlin isn't a good coach is a shot at the people who hired him and continue to pay him ... the Rooneys. Leave it to TB to inadvertently stab those that made him who he is.


My personal opinion is that Tomlin is a top 3 coach. If the Rooneys ditch him today, he'll be employed by another team tomorrow and making more money while doing it. He doesn't get a free pass from me as I do think there are some things he's got to clean up. Most noticeably, losing to poor teams. I'm a big fan of holding players accountable for wins and losses more than the coaches. However, Tomlin does seem to have an issue getting his teams ready for sub-par competition. This certainly was the case earlier in the year, but he's done well the past 6 games. Here's something to consider: if Tomlin wins the games against opponents with losing recorders over the course of his career, he'd be on par with Belicheat. That's the only difference between the 2 coaches, one wins the games they are supposed to win and the other struggles.

That minor gripe aside, Tomlin has done very well with the talent he's had and he's never had a losing season, made the playoffs in 6 of 9 seasons and kept this team relevant almost every year. I'm very encouraged by what I see in this team going forward, especially with the 3 starting rookies on defense.  I'm not sure they have what it takes to get another ring this year (it might be as simple as having a healthy Tuitt), but Tomlin has the pieces to crush the competition next year.

Yeah, he's a good coach alright.
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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:23 pm

@kirklandrules wrote:
@stlrtruck wrote:
Saying Tomlin isn't a good coach is a shot at the people who hired him and continue to pay him ... the Rooneys. Leave it to TB to inadvertently stab those that made him who he is.

As discussed above, there was nothing objectionable about Bradshaw's statement that Tomlin is not on his list of great coaches - the only active coach with multiple Lombardis is Belichick, which to me is the starting point for being great.

It was this followup comment where Bradshaw stepped in it -  "I've said this, he's really a great cheerleader guy. I don't know what he does."   Not "motivator" - cheerleader. Given that cheerleaders in the NFL are women hired for their looks who stand on the sidelines and wave pom poms while men of action decide the contest on the field, it would be hard for Bradshaw to say anything more insulting other than the old standby that the only reason Tomlin got the Steelers job in the first place was due to the Rooney Rule. That was the comment that lit Tomlin's fuse.

Bradshaw going on to say Cowher (who if anything was more of a sideline "cheerleader" than Tomlin or any coach in the NFL I have ever seen in his early years) was a great coach (1 Lombardi - 4 home losses in the AFC championship game) confirms to me Bradshaw just says whatever thought first pops into his head.  

FWIW this is the video of Bradshaw's appearance on Fox (bonus clown points to Terry for showing up wearing a sweatshirt)

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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:50 pm

Criticism has nothing to do with Steelers fans being spoiled. It has everything to do with bad losses to lousy teams year in and year out. Too many get caught up in the "diss game". Just stand back and listen and stop thinking everything is a put down. I'm not talking about Bradshaw now, I'm talking about the criticism of Tomlin.

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PostSubject: Re: Terry Bradshaw not a huge fan of Steelers' Mike Tomlin: 'He's a cheerleader guy'   Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:06 pm

The problem about Bradshaw's comment is not about his take on Tomlin not being a great coach. It's his opinion on Tomlin just being a cheerleader. It's fine if you think that Tomlin is not great. But it definitely is downright disrespectful by saying that Tomlin is just a great cheerleader.

By all objective measures, Tomlin is at least an above average coach in the league. And a coach wouldn't be above average by just being a great cheerleader. It's not just an insult to Tomlin but also a shot to Rooney and the front office who stick with Tomlin for 10 years.
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