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SteelerFreak58

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PostSubject: Re: It wasn't even...   Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:57 am

Wasn't one of Artie Burns strengths supposed to be bump and run 1v1 coverage coming out of college? I remember an awful lot of chatter here about why he might not be a good fit because his "zone" technique wasn't that great and he would have to learn it... seems like he should have been allowed to do a little more of it when it was obviously needed...
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: It wasn't even...   Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:33 am

@Atlanta Dan wrote:
@Fire Arians wrote:
@FrancoLambert wrote:
@Steeler-in-west wrote:
@rellimie wrote:
Let's not forget that the Steelers aren't the only team the Patriots****** "own".  

This 'owning' is overblown. Patriots***** don't own shit. They just won a game. This steeler team is a revamped team with a young defense that will only get better. They have nothing to do with the steeler teams from ten years ago. They'll be back.

If a quarterback accumulates a record of 19 TD passes and 0 interceptions against one team's defense......he owns that defense.

We'll never beat the Patriots*** as long as brady is playing for them. hurts to say it but it's the truth, and nothing has led me to believe otherwise

As others have posted they did in 2011 at Heinz by going to man coverage - why that was not tried yesterday I have no idea

This video link (could not embed) has Warren Sapp of all people describing why that worked

http://www.nfl.com/m/share?p=%2Fvideos%2Fnfl-network-total-access%2F09000d5d823a8fb0%2FSteelers-defense-steps-up

Thanks Dan,

Exactly what we should of done on Sunday. At least we would have given ourselves a chance to compete in the game. Of course if the execution was bad like the zone we ran it would not matter. If the Texans had a legitimate QB we would have played them at Heinz Field. They lost because of lack of talent. We lost because of execution and a LOUSY game plan.
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kan_t



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PostSubject: Re: It wasn't even...   Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:36 am

And Nix was totally ignored when the Steelers were still down by 8. They acted like DeAngelo Williams was totally garbage so they decided to give up the run game and didn't want to give him any blocking help once Bell was down.
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PostSubject: Re: It wasn't even...   Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:12 pm

This was the only game I wanted them to win and I don't even care if it was the AFCCG or not. Just beat the Pats* on their home turf in the Brady era with him playing JUST ONCE!
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El-Gonzo Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: It wasn't even...   Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:34 am

@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
Wasn't one of Artie Burns strengths supposed to be bump and run 1v1 coverage coming out of college? I remember an awful lot of chatter here about why he might not be a good fit because his "zone" technique wasn't that great and he would have to learn it... seems like he should have been allowed to do a little more of it when it was obviously needed...

Yeah, I think Burns played more man in Miami and he turns his hips and gets in bail technique quickly, so he would have been able to run with just about any WR the Pats* had playing the boundary. The only thing would be he would likely have had to watch the WR and not the QB like he has tendency to, or he would have got beat with a terrible double move.

I think if they practiced some Cover 2, Zone under defense it would have been a different look that might have worked better....but obviously they didn't have it installed in the gameplan.
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PostSubject: Re: It wasn't even...   Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:01 am

Apparently someone on the team has decided to anonymously respond to the criticisms of the game plan to play zone




What a postgame dumpster fire after the loss - nice to see the anonymous "team source" (presumably a coach, since a player throwing Gay under the bus would be even worse) burn the players for the meltdown on defense after Ben blamed Haley for the playcalling
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El-Gonzo Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: It wasn't even...   Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:15 am

@Atlanta Dan wrote:
Apparently someone on the team has decided to anonymously respond to the criticisms of the game plan to play zone




What a postgame dumpster fire after the loss - nice to see the anonymous "team source" (presumably a coach, since a player throwing Gay under the bus would be even worse) burn the players for the meltdown on defense after Ben blamed Haley for the playcalling

I knew before the game that handling Edelman in the slot would be an issue. But IMO, the defensive staff never committed much thought to it. Seriously, if you really wanted to limit Edelman like the Pats* limited AB, you play man-to-man underneath and instead of 2 deep safety help, you go single high safety and walk the other safety down to double Edelman.

Play man-to man, but double Edelman and make Hogan or Bennett beat their man coverage to get their yardage. No different that what the Patriots* did to Brown. Still, the Steelers had 9 points for most of the game, so all the obsession of how the defense got picked apart is moot, because that talented Steelers offense didn't get to double digits until the 4th quarter.
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PostSubject: Re: It wasn't even...   Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:23 am

@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
@Atlanta Dan wrote:
Apparently someone on the team has decided to anonymously respond to the criticisms of the game plan to play zone




What a postgame dumpster fire after the loss - nice to see the anonymous "team source" (presumably a coach, since a player throwing Gay under the bus would be even worse) burn the players for the meltdown on defense after Ben blamed Haley for the playcalling

I knew before the game that handling Edelman in the slot would be an issue.  But IMO, the defensive staff never committed much thought to it.  Seriously, if you really wanted to limit Edelman like the Pats** limited AB, you play man-to-man underneath and instead of 2 deep safety help, you go single high safety and walk the other safety down to double Edelman.

Play man-to man, but double Edelman and make Hogan or Bennett beat their man coverage to get their yardage.  No different that what the Patriots** did to Brown.  Still, the Steelers had 9 points for most of the game, so all the obsession of how the defense got picked apart is moot, because that talented Steelers offense didn't get to double digits until the 4th quarter.


I guess the pre-season goal of scoring 30 a game should be downgraded for next year.

When you consider the offensive weapons we have, the offense definitely under-achieved this season.
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Atlanta Dan



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PostSubject: Re: It wasn't even...   Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:47 am

@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
@Atlanta Dan wrote:
Apparently someone on the team has decided to anonymously respond to the criticisms of the game plan to play zone




What a postgame dumpster fire after the loss - nice to see the anonymous "team source" (presumably a coach, since a player throwing Gay under the bus would be even worse) burn the players for the meltdown on defense after Ben blamed Haley for the playcalling

I knew before the game that handling Edelman in the slot would be an issue.  But IMO, the defensive staff never committed much thought to it.  Seriously, if you really wanted to limit Edelman like the Pats*** limited AB, you play man-to-man underneath and instead of 2 deep safety help, you go single high safety and walk the other safety down to double Edelman.

Play man-to man, but double Edelman and make Hogan or Bennett beat their man coverage to get their yardage.  No different that what the Patriots*** did to Brown.  Still, the Steelers had 9 points for most of the game, so all the obsession of how the defense got picked apart is moot, because that talented Steelers offense didn't get to double digits until the 4th quarter.

Looks like Butler is telling Gerry Dulac of the P-G that they had to play zone because of Willie Gay - after his tweets yesterday, which appear to be based on comments from Butler, Dulac had these observations in his chat today

Everyone's saying the problem is not doing press coverage. Did Butler not switch because he didn't trust the personnel he has available?

Gerry Dulac
Pay the man. Best question of the year

Gerry Dulac
One player in particular.


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2017/01/25/pittsburgh-steelers-gerry-dulac-chat-1-25-17/stories/201701250167

Gay may be on the way out - Dulac also had this observation

Gerry Dulac
I think Ross Cockrell might be playing himself into the nickel back role in 2017 if Senquez Golson can stay healthy and get on the field....

Is Senquez Golson's foot finally healed? Can we finally count on him competing w/ Gay for the slot corner spot next year? He's been like Bigfoot, we've heard all about him but nobody has seen him.

Gerry Dulac
Haha. Bigfoot's foot should be all ready to go. And you don't have to worry about him competing w Gay. There will be no competition. I think the Steelers saw all they needed to see in the NE game


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2017/01/25/pittsburgh-steelers-gerry-dulac-chat-1-25-17/stories/201701250167
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Jazzo

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PostSubject: Re: It wasn't even...   Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:53 am

@FrancoLambert wrote:
I guess the pre-season goal of scoring 30 a game should be downgraded for next year.

When you consider the offensive weapons we have, the offense definitely under-achieved this season.

Exactly! I watched every game closely this season and it was easy to see who was killing our drives with the horrible play calling like always. It seems like the majority of the offensive success came when Ben was running "hurry up" and got the offense in rhythm. It's politics like any other workplace. Some folks keep their jobs due to nepotism...

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El-Gonzo Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: It wasn't even...   Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:50 pm

I am curious as to why Dulac thinks that Golson would automatically be the starter on the boundary and Cockrell is the nickel back?? We really don't know until we see Golson, but he seems like a quicker guy than Cockrell and better for the inside IMO.

Either way, I think the plan all along was Golson to take over from Gay, so likely next season. Gilbert is still a mystery and also might be a guy that plays zone inside better than on the boundary.
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kirklandrules

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PostSubject: Re: It wasn't even...   Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:52 pm

@Jazzo wrote:
@FrancoLambert wrote:
I guess the pre-season goal of scoring 30 a game should be downgraded for next year.

When you consider the offensive weapons we have, the offense definitely under-achieved this season.

Exactly! I watched every game closely this season and it was easy to see who was killing our drives with the horrible play calling like always. It seems like the majority of the offensive success came when Ben was running "hurry up" and got the offense in rhythm. It's politics like any other workplace. Some folks keep their jobs due to nepotism...

Seems to me that Ben ran plenty of no-huddle against the Patriots*. That didn't work out to well. Who was the QB on the first drive that called a deep pass to Coats on 3rd and 1? I didn't see Haley under center at that point in the game. And the week before Ben's audibles on the goalline against the Chiefs didn't work out too well either. I'm not saying Haley doesn't have his share of bad calls, but the poor execution seen from the offense the past two weeks is owned by the 11 guys wearing helmets, not the guys with clipboards.
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PostSubject: Re: It wasn't even...   Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:55 pm

@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
I am curious as to why Dulac thinks that Golson would automatically be the starter on the boundary and Cockrell is the nickel back??  We really don't know until we see Golson, but he seems like a quicker guy than Cockrell and better for the inside IMO.

Either way, I think the plan all along was Golson to take over from Gay, so likely next season.  Gilbert is still a mystery and also might be a guy that plays zone inside better than on the boundary.

Exactly my thoughts. My only guess as to why Dulac thinks Cockrell is the shoe-in at nickle is probably because he takes Golson's comments that he's an outside corner as a fact.
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PostSubject: Re: It wasn't even...   Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:12 pm

@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:

I knew before the game that handling Edelman in the slot would be an issue.  But IMO, the defensive staff never committed much thought to it.  Seriously, if you really wanted to limit Edelman like the Pats** limited AB, you play man-to-man underneath and instead of 2 deep safety help, you go single high safety and walk the other safety down to double Edelman.

Play man-to man, but double Edelman and make Hogan or Bennett beat their man coverage to get their yardage.  No different that what the Patriots** did to Brown.  Still, the Steelers had 9 points for most of the game, so all the obsession of how the defense got picked apart is moot, because that talented Steelers offense didn't get to double digits until the 4th quarter.

My issue with bracketing Edelman is that he's not the guy you worry about beating you deep. He beats defenders off the ball and makes the underneath catch. If you have a safety playing high, most likely Gay is beat underneath and now you have 1-1 in the open field with the safety. The reason it's 1-1 with the safety is because the other defenders are chasing their responsible receivers down the field. The way to play Edelman is to have a good press corner who can chuck him off his release and stay with him underneath. I was hoping that would be Burns. Obviously it wasn't Gay.

I just don't believe the issues on Sunday night were scheme. The Steelers defense was playing pretty good zone defense in the second half of the year. In fact they were improving their play with just about every game. And it's not like Belicheat and Brady devised an awesome scheme to find those open spots in the zone. Almost 100% of Brady's completions were made to totally wide open receivers because someone on the defense didn't stay in their zone. David Todd had an interesting stat the other day. 19% of the passes in the NFL during the 2016 season were thrown into contested areas of play. 5% of Tom Brady's passes Sunday night went into contested areas ... meaning 95% were totally uncontested (wide open). That isn't scheme, that's being outplayed (execution). I honestly believe RG3 would have torched that defense on Sunday. Every NFL QB can hit an open receiver.

Maybe it was a combination of the stomach flu and middle of the night fire alarm (which Tomlin is obligated to deny). But somehow almost everyone wearing a Steelers uniform under-performed compared to where they were leading up to that game.
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PostSubject: Re: It wasn't even...   Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:07 pm

@kirklandrules wrote:
@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:

I knew before the game that handling Edelman in the slot would be an issue.  But IMO, the defensive staff never committed much thought to it.  Seriously, if you really wanted to limit Edelman like the Pats*** limited AB, you play man-to-man underneath and instead of 2 deep safety help, you go single high safety and walk the other safety down to double Edelman.

Play man-to man, but double Edelman and make Hogan or Bennett beat their man coverage to get their yardage.  No different that what the Patriots*** did to Brown.  Still, the Steelers had 9 points for most of the game, so all the obsession of how the defense got picked apart is moot, because that talented Steelers offense didn't get to double digits until the 4th quarter.

My issue with bracketing Edelman is that he's not the guy you worry about beating you deep. He beats defenders off the ball and makes the underneath catch. If you have a safety playing high, most likely Gay is beat underneath and now you have 1-1 in the open field with the safety. The reason it's 1-1 with the safety is because the other defenders are chasing their responsible receivers down the field. The way to play Edelman is to have a good press corner who can chuck him off his release and stay with him underneath. I was hoping that would be Burns. Obviously it wasn't Gay.

I just don't believe the issues on Sunday night were scheme. The Steelers defense was playing pretty good zone defense in the second half of the year. In fact they were improving their play with just about every game. And it's not like Belicheat and Brady devised an awesome scheme to find those open spots in the zone. Almost 100% of Brady's completions were made to totally wide open receivers because someone on the defense didn't stay in their zone. David Todd had an interesting stat the other day. 19% of the passes in the NFL during the 2016 season were thrown into contested areas of play. 5% of Tom Brady's passes Sunday night went into contested areas ... meaning 95% were totally uncontested (wide open). That isn't scheme, that's being outplayed (execution). I honestly believe RG3 would have torched that defense on Sunday. Every NFL QB can hit an open receiver.

Maybe it was a combination of the stomach flu and middle of the night fire alarm (which Tomlin is obligated to deny). But somehow almost everyone wearing a Steelers uniform under-performed compared to where they were leading up to that game.

The blueprint is what the Texans did the week before, but they had no QB, just Osweiler.

Get Brady off his spot and try to get pressure up the A gaps. Then play man so he doesn't have the ability to throw to his first read. I'm not worried about Edelman getting deep if you are getting pressure up the middle. Play one CB to the inside of Edelman and walk a safety down to shade him to his outside cut and make on of the other WR's beat you with a single high safety over top.

Again, Ben and his offense could not generate more than 9 points until the 4th quarter, so it doesn't matter much.
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kan_t



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PostSubject: Re: It wasn't even...   Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:14 pm

@kirklandrules wrote:
@Jazzo wrote:
@FrancoLambert wrote:
I guess the pre-season goal of scoring 30 a game should be downgraded for next year.

When you consider the offensive weapons we have, the offense definitely under-achieved this season.

Exactly! I watched every game closely this season and it was easy to see who was killing our drives with the horrible play calling like always. It seems like the majority of the offensive success came when Ben was running "hurry up" and got the offense in rhythm. It's politics like any other workplace. Some folks keep their jobs due to nepotism...

Seems to me that Ben ran plenty of no-huddle against the Patriots**. That didn't work out to well. Who was the QB on the first drive that called a deep pass to Coats on 3rd and 1? I didn't see Haley under center at that point in the game. And the week before Ben's audibles on the goalline against the Chiefs didn't work out too well either. I'm not saying Haley doesn't have his share of bad calls, but the poor execution seen from the offense the past two weeks is owned by the 11 guys wearing helmets, not the guys with clipboards.

Actually the deep pass on 3rd and 1 was an excellent play calling. The problem is that other than Brown, it seems no WR wanted to catch the ball in that game.
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PostSubject: Re: It wasn't even...   Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:16 am

@FrancoLambert wrote:
@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
@Atlanta Dan wrote:
Apparently someone on the team has decided to anonymously respond to the criticisms of the game plan to play zone




What a postgame dumpster fire after the loss - nice to see the anonymous "team source" (presumably a coach, since a player throwing Gay under the bus would be even worse) burn the players for the meltdown on defense after Ben blamed Haley for the playcalling

I knew before the game that handling Edelman in the slot would be an issue.  But IMO, the defensive staff never committed much thought to it.  Seriously, if you really wanted to limit Edelman like the Pats***** limited AB, you play man-to-man underneath and instead of 2 deep safety help, you go single high safety and walk the other safety down to double Edelman.

Play man-to man, but double Edelman and make Hogan or Bennett beat their man coverage to get their yardage.  No different that what the Patriots***** did to Brown.  Still, the Steelers had 9 points for most of the game, so all the obsession of how the defense got picked apart is moot, because that talented Steelers offense didn't get to double digits until the 4th quarter.


I guess the pre-season goal of scoring 30 a game should be downgraded for next year.

When you consider the offensive weapons we have, the offense definitely under-achieved this season.

I don't think the offense under-achieved at all. When we had Bryant and Wheaton available our offense was damn near unstoppable because they were guys that had the speed and talent to take the top completely off of a defense. Their presence out on the field took pressure off of Antonio Brown and the rest of the receivers around them. If anything I think we over achieved considering Coates dislocated fingers, Wheaton's injury, and Bryant's suspension. We were running with Cobi Hamilton a practice squad guy, and Darrius Heyward Bey (who really isn't anything more than a WR4 or WR5) as our WR2 for most of this season. The fact that Le'Veon Bell was the second leading receiver on our team just goes to show how ineffective Hamilton and DHB were. The passing game definitely got a little more stagnant without Wheaton/Bryant, but Bell picked up their lack of production by putting up good numbers receiving , and carrying the load in the running game.

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PostSubject: Re: It wasn't even...   Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:22 am

Just read an article where Cockrell says he feels he is much better at press bump and run coverage then zone... so we have Burns who when drafted was great at press coverage and Cockrell who says he is better at it then zone (btw I thought Cockrell did a hell of a job this year) and we didn't used it against the Patriots*... wtf?
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PostSubject: Re: It wasn't even...   Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:45 am

@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
Just read an article where Cockrell says he feels he is much better at press bump and run coverage then zone... so we have Burns who when drafted was great at press coverage and Cockrell who says he is better at it then zone (btw I thought Cockrell did a hell of a job this year) and we didn't used it against the Patriots**... wtf?

Look a few posts up. According to Dulac, the Steelers went to man 3 times and got burned all three times. You can out coach poor execution.
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