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 Next Steps for Steelers in 2017

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WVABE



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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:37 pm

Heard this on the radio on the way home from work.

"Is Steeler Nation ready for Tony Romo because it looks like Big Ben is on his way out".

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SteelerFreak58

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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:55 pm

I honestly think Mettenberger is going to surprise a hell of a lot of people in OTAs, camp, and preseason games if he is given a shot. He is a big pocket passing QB with a really strong arm. The guy got drafted by a shitty team and thrown to the wolves. I definitely think he will be an upgrade at backup over Jones.
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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:10 pm

I'll look at this 2 ways.

Scenario A: Ben leaves
Let's pretend Ben is serious. He has had enough and files his papers. In this, I don't think it matters much. We are screwed anyway you look at it. The championship window we had has been slammed shut. With a very thin QB college draft, there isn't much there. Here is the list of 2017 FA QBs http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/quarterback/. I think you have to look at a trade. Who? I have no idea, but it is going to be extremely costly. Given you get the right guy, the championship window may be slightly cracked open.

An alternative, and probably unpopular choice, is realize you are in for a 3-4 year rebuild. Trade Brown and get some good draft picks, consider trading Bell for the same. Sign a journeyman QB off the list to bridge to the next guy, realizing the 2017 campaign is shot and start rebuilding your WR and RB core through the draft in anticipation of the next franchise QB to be drafted in 2018.

Use your cap space to sign smart vets. to mentor your young guys.

Scenario 2A: Ben comes back
In 2A, you put all your chips in and give Ben, and the team, what they need to win this year. Go get a 2WR and a OLB / ILB off the FA market, maybe even another outside CB. Tag Bell, and resign Brown. Deal with cap hell later knowing the window is open for 1-2 years.

Scenario 2B: Ben comes back
The most likely decision, Tag Bell, work on a deal for Brown, but don't jeopardize the future knowing you can tag him for 1 more year pushing him to age 30 (where assumingly his skills will start to decline a bit). This doesn't open the championship window as wide, but it doesn't slam it shut either. Sign a smart FA here and there and build through the draft and hope the rookies can contribute something within the season.
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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:43 pm

@WVABE wrote:
Heard this on the radio on the way home from work.

"Is Steeler Nation ready for Tony Romo because it looks like Big Ben is on his way out".


As outlandish as it sounds, if Ben retires it would be a great one year move IMO.    

Who else could you get on such short notice with big game experience and capable of running a passing attack.

For one season I'd roll the dice with Romo.  His season would probably last about 4 or 5 games and then you're back to Landry Jones anyway.
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El-Gonzo Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:29 am

@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
I honestly think Mettenberger is going to surprise a hell of a lot of people in OTAs, camp, and preseason games if he is given a shot. He is a big pocket passing QB with a really strong arm. The guy got drafted by a shitty team and thrown to the wolves. I definitely think he will be an upgrade at backup over Jones.

Just like he surprised a lot of people while in Chargers camp this season?
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:00 am

@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
I honestly think Mettenberger is going to surprise a hell of a lot of people in OTAs, camp, and preseason games if he is given a shot. He is a big pocket passing QB with a really strong arm. The guy got drafted by a shitty team and thrown to the wolves. I definitely think he will be an upgrade at backup over Jones.

Remember, Good QBs lift bad teams up. Not the other way around.
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IowaSteeler927

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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:11 am

@solardave wrote:
@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
I honestly think Mettenberger is going to surprise a hell of a lot of people in OTAs, camp, and preseason games if he is given a shot. He is a big pocket passing QB with a really strong arm. The guy got drafted by a shitty team and thrown to the wolves. I definitely think he will be an upgrade at backup over Jones.

Remember, Good QBs lift bad teams up. Not the other way around.

Yeah if Mettenberger was really that good at all he'd of been given a shot at the backup job with us. Jones remained entrenched as the backup even after Mettenberger arrived. The fact that he's that young and has already been on three different teams doesn't speak well to Mettenberger's chances of being a starter anytime in this league.

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SteelersNorth



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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:32 am

@jak341 wrote:
I'll look at this 2 ways.

Scenario A: Ben leaves
Let's pretend Ben is serious. He has had enough and files his papers. In this, I don't think it matters much. We are screwed anyway you look at it. The championship window we had has been slammed shut. With a very thin QB college draft, there isn't much there. Here is the list of 2017 FA QBs http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/quarterback/. I think you have to look at a trade. Who? I have no idea, but it is going to be extremely costly. Given you get the right guy, the championship window may be slightly cracked open.

An alternative, and probably unpopular choice, is realize you are in for a 3-4 year rebuild. Trade Brown and get some good draft picks, consider trading Bell for the same. Sign a journeyman QB off the list to bridge to the next guy, realizing the 2017 campaign is shot and start rebuilding your WR and RB core through the draft in anticipation of the next franchise QB to be drafted in 2018.

Use your cap space to sign smart vets. to mentor your young guys.
he's not leaving. no guy will turn away 65mil remaining on his contract. I love Ben because he fits what the Steelers are but sometimes he needs to just keep his mouth shut. Now if he brought up the retirement thing after a year or 2 from now where say they 'didn't' make the playoffs you could maybe understand it because they're not that close to winning. having said that lets move along lol

Scenario 2A: Ben comes back
In 2A, you put all your chips in and give Ben, and the team, what they need to win this year. Go get a 2WR and a OLB / ILB off the FA market, maybe even another outside CB. Tag Bell, and resign Brown. Deal with cap hell later knowing the window is open for 1-2 years.
I think I said here earlier or in another thread can't remember lol but IDEALLY they pick up a top tier FA. my personal top 3 (not saying this will happen as this is the dream world of course) would be another DB/CB in Eric Berry, Stephon Gilmore and lastly Melvin Ingram (the last one im going by what i've read a lot of you say)

Scenario 2B: Ben comes back
The most likely decision, Tag Bell, work on a deal for Brown, but don't jeopardize the future knowing you can tag him for 1 more year pushing him to age 30 (where assumingly his skills will start to decline a bit). This doesn't open the championship window as wide, but it doesn't slam it shut either. Sign a smart FA here and there and build through the draft and hope the rookies can contribute something within the season.
he should be back they're an impact pass rusher/another solid cover guy away (barring injuries) from going all the way I think.
Bell should be tagged because you can't rely on him not slipping up
AB 4 year deal, maybe 5, taking him to 33 front loaded so they could potentially cut him if his production dips when he hits his 30s (it can happen)
Hopefully draft a top tier pass rushing LB that potentially by mid season take some pressure off Harrison as I figure he'd be the starter until this guy learns the nuances of the system.
Again this all goes to shit if Ben does retire because regardless sans him you've got nothing.

See if I can answer this ^
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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:07 am

@kirklandrules wrote:
Since there were several posts in the Patriots** gameday thread about what comes next, thought we could use a dedicated thread for that discussion. Fire away on free agency (additions and subtractions), early leanings on the draft, and maybe a post or two on how the Steelers should fire Arians again.

one thing comes to my mind is the tape from the game the defensive part. the Steelers played pretty much the zone the young DBs have been learning all year. imo this will be a great teaching tool for the defensive coaches and for the young DBs to learn from. Steelers fans hate it but the offensive play calls and Brady's accuracy for them to see it live in game speed and in the pressure of a playoff game should help Burns, Davis, Gilbert, and Cockrell this off season to better the craft.

I' m not getting into the rest of the defense just the young DBs and the valuable lesson they saw in a high pressure game and what can be learned in this offseason DB meeting room. these young CBs I include Davis has the talent to play CB they need to learn and have the talent to play man or zone.

if the pass rush is getting there play zone and watch for bad throws from the QB, if the pass rush isn't getting to the QB then they got to learn man up on their man and help the pass rush to get the bad throws.

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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:21 am

@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
Dontari Poe may hit FA... imagine that 3 man front (Hayward, Poe, Tuiit) coming at you with Hargrave spelling each of them throughout the game... just plain nasty.

I like the defense better when Tuitt and Hargrave played DT those two tied up the 3 inside o-linemen and Timmons had a good path to the QB or Shazier shooting the gap to the RB.


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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:27 am

h
@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
@solardave wrote:
@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
I honestly think Mettenberger is going to surprise a hell of a lot of people in OTAs, camp, and preseason games if he is given a shot. He is a big pocket passing QB with a really strong arm. The guy got drafted by a shitty team and thrown to the wolves. I definitely think he will be an upgrade at backup over Jones.

Remember, Good QBs lift bad teams up. Not the other way around.

Yeah if Mettenberger was really that good at all he'd of been given a shot at the backup job with us. Jones remained entrenched as the backup even after Mettenberger arrived. The fact that he's that young and has already been on three different teams doesn't speak well to Mettenberger's chances of being a starter anytime in this league.

Mettenberger came in to preseason pretty late Jones wasn't going to back up unless he had an injury or seriously blew a game. Not saying Mettenberger is the answer to anything but he could be a solid backup QB for years to come if he shows a good command of the offense in preseason.
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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:44 am

@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
I honestly think Mettenberger is going to surprise a hell of a lot of people in OTAs, camp, and preseason games if he is given a shot. He is a big pocket passing QB with a really strong arm. The guy got drafted by a shitty team and thrown to the wolves. I definitely think he will be an upgrade at backup over Jones.

maybe he's got Terry Bradshaw written on him? got the QB tools might be that hard headed player from Georgia who ended up at LSU.

not comparing but Ben was a little hard headed when Haley became the OC or Mettenberger hard headed when he came to the Steelers.

I just need a hug

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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:48 am

@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
I honestly think Mettenberger is going to surprise a hell of a lot of people in OTAs, camp, and preseason games if he is given a shot. He is a big pocket passing QB with a really strong arm. The guy got drafted by a shitty team and thrown to the wolves. I definitely think he will be an upgrade at backup over Jones.

Just like he surprised a lot of people while in Chargers camp this season?

one of these guys from the Chargers got to pan out why not the hard head QB?

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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:51 am

@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
@solardave wrote:
@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
I honestly think Mettenberger is going to surprise a hell of a lot of people in OTAs, camp, and preseason games if he is given a shot. He is a big pocket passing QB with a really strong arm. The guy got drafted by a shitty team and thrown to the wolves. I definitely think he will be an upgrade at backup over Jones.

Remember, Good QBs lift bad teams up. Not the other way around.

Yeah if Mettenberger was really that good at all he'd of been given a shot at the backup job with us. Jones remained entrenched as the backup even after Mettenberger arrived. The fact that he's that young and has already been on three different teams doesn't speak well to Mettenberger's chances of being a starter anytime in this league.

Mike Bercovici outplayed Mettenberger in Chargers camp last summer and Mettenberger was released from San Diego when they cut down to 75 players. Then Bercovici was released when the Chargers cut down to 53 players.

I think when you go from starting in Tennessee, to being released by teams in favor of an undrafted Free Agent, you are running out of chances to surprise teams in a positive way.
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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:08 am

hard head Haley should relate well with a young hard head QB with a cannon for a arm.

this is the first year Haley has got Ben throwing short passing game but he was also has givin Ben the option to go deep if he sees one on one to the outside good or bad.

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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:47 pm

Steelers would do wonders getting someone like Eric Berry and Melvin Gordon to bridge the 2 major holes they have. Steelers have the cap room right now. For the first time in years. Maybe go all in on some free agents who can make a difference and than try to win one more with Big Ben. Big Ben is on his way out. I wouldn't be surprised if they won it all next year and he retires after. His health and his rep have been damaged pretty good during his career. A lot of the retirement may stew from that and how he may just want to get away forever from the public spotlight.
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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:32 pm

Feels like next year is our last chance to make a super bowl run. Ben will be 35 but after that he may still be good for a couple years but no longer great. Hopefully Bryant can make a comeback but it would be a very good idea to spend money on a solid no 2 WR in FA.

Defense: of course need an OLB who can help with the pass rush and a CB who can play man.

I still think the steelers missed a golden opportunity to beat the Patriots**** and get to the super bowl. We had the better personnel. But they had better preparation. I hear players blaming the scheme that day and the coaches blaming poor player execution. But to me the defensive scheme didn't make sense - to me and others I talked to not enough blitzing. And playing 10 - 15 yards off the receivers??? And how could man coverage be worse than the zone we displayed? I hope the coaches learn and plan for next season based on what happened last Sunday. And it's not just for the Patriots****. Other teams with good QBs will try to do the same thing to us next year.
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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:37 am

@Steeler-in-west wrote:
Feels like next year is our last chance to make a super bowl run. Ben will be 35 but after that he may still be good for a couple years but no longer great. Hopefully Bryant can make a comeback but it would be a very good idea to spend money on a solid no 2 WR in FA.

Defense: of course need an OLB who can help with the pass rush and a CB who can play man.

I still think the steelers missed a golden opportunity to beat the Patriots***** and get to the super bowl. We had the better personnel. But they had better preparation. I hear players blaming the scheme that day and the coaches blaming poor player execution. But to me the defensive scheme didn't make sense - to me and others I talked to not enough blitzing. And playing 10 - 15 yards off the receivers??? And how could man coverage be worse than the zone we displayed? I hope the coaches learn and plan for next season based on what happened last Sunday. And it's not just for the Patriots*****. Other teams with good QBs will try to do the same thing to us next year.

This P-G article agrees with your observations

As the Steelers prepare for the 2017 season, their top priority should be finding a cornerback to play opposite Artie Burns who can be used in press man coverage schemes. They don’t have to drastically change their defense — their predominantly zone defense has been good enough to make the playoffs three consecutive years — but if they ever want to beat Brady, they need more versatile personnel. And they need Tomlin and his staff to be more creative so their schemes aren’t as predictable.

The Steelers need an edge rusher early in the draft. They could use a receiver and maybe even an inside linebacker if Lawrence Timmons isn’t re-signed, but the path past Brady requires better pass defense....

Veteran William Gay, who was demoted from starter to nickel back halfway through the season and was exposed by Brady in the championship game, is unlikely to return. Senquez Golson, the 2015 second-round pick who has not yet played a down in the NFL, is an option to replace Gay, but the Steelers can’t count on him because of his injury history. Justin Gilbert is an option, too, but he barely played after coming over from the Browns in a trade....

For those who say the Steelers can’t spend their offseason concentrating to beat one team, consider the other quarterbacks on the 2017 schedule. In addition to Brady the Steelers will play Aaron Rodgers of Green Bay, Sam Bradford of Minnesota, Andrew Luck of Indianapolis and Marcus Mariota of Tennessee. All five finished among the top 10 in the NFL in 2016 passer rating. They also have to face Matthew Stafford of Detroit, who finished 13th in passer rating and led the Lions to the playoffs.

The Steelers faced three quarterbacks in the top 10 in passer rating in 2016, including Brady (twice), Dak Prescott of Dallas and Kirk Cousins of Washington. They were 1-3 in those games, beating Cousins. They gave up 27, 36 and 35 points and an average of 308 passing yards in the other three games.

On second thought, forget about getting past New England in the playoffs. The Steelers might not even get there if they don’t find some corners capable of playing in man coverage.


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2017/01/27/pittsburgh-steelers-man-coverage-personnel-tom-brady-new-england-Patriots*-super-bowl/stories/201701270079
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El-Gonzo Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:25 am

That P-G article is just shittipaldo writing some doom and gloom to try and get readership. Consider the emergence of Cockrell, Davis and Burns this season compared to the previous year and the secondary is in a lot better place.

Steelers just spent their #1 and #2 picks on secondary last year and he is saying cornerback should be priority #1. The guy is a joke.
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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:47 am

Cockrell shut down a ton of number 1 receivers all year. He also believes he is much better at press coverage then zone and he did a great job statistically all year. Cockrell wasn't the problem. The bland stock scheming was and a lack of pass rush pressure for the first half of the year. Ben playing like dog shit on the road was part of the problem. Tomlin "running the wheels" off of Bell is part of the problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:08 am

I'm inclined to agree with Gonz on that PG article. Really, they could have just recycled any of the articles from prior years that start with something like: Steelers Need to Improve Their Secondary. Yeah, that's still a valid statement. But as Gonz eluded to, the Steelers have improved from prior years and have some young talent that will push this group forward in the next few seasons. Hell, if you want to write an article, maybe something along the lines of: One More Puzzle Piece Needed In the Steelers Secondary, then get into how the young guys played, what Golson and Gilbert provide as far as opportunity (that's where a little research on their styles of play come in .... but that takes a little effort Fittipaldo's part), then maybe how the 2017 draft has strong corners that go well into the 3rd round.
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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:19 am

@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
That P-G article is just shittipaldo writing some doom and gloom to try and get readership.  Consider the emergence of Cockrell, Davis and Burns this season compared to the previous year and the secondary is in a lot better place.  

Steelers just spent their #1 and #2 picks on secondary last year and he is saying cornerback should be priority #1.  The guy is a joke.

The article is pretty much a rewrite of what Gerry Dulac (who IMO used Butler as his source) was saying on twitter and in his P-G chat earlier this week

If Gay is gone I do not know how viable it is to be counting on a small CB who has not been able to make it out of training camp the past 2 seasons to step up. Agreed that the 2016 secondary was an improvement but in the 2017 playoffs the Steelers are not just likely to see Brady again if they get there but someone like Carr, Mariota or Luck rather than Alex Smith and Matt Moore - getting torched on Sunday exposed ongoing issues

If the window is closing in the next 2 years maybe you do try to improve the defense again in the draft for both the short term and the long term since the offense probably is headed for hard times once Ben retires - I say that from the perspective of someone who assumes it is likely QB play will be grim for some time after Ben leaves after having watched this Murderer's Row of QBs between Bradshaw and Ben - Stoudt, Malone, Brister, O'Donnell, Tomczak, Kordell, Graham and Maddox
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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:41 am

brister was my favorite qb at one time. lol, part of what's awesome about being a kid is really not knowing any better
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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:02 pm

@Atlanta Dan wrote:
If the window is closing in the next 2 years maybe you do try to improve the defense again in the draft for both the short term and the long term since the offense probably is headed for hard times once Ben retires - I say that from the perspective of someone who assumes it is likely QB play will be grim for some time after Ben leaves after having watched this Murderer's Row of QBs between Bradshaw and Ben - Stoudt, Malone, Brister, O'Donnell, Tomczak, Kordell, Graham and Maddox

I omitted the one game Jim Miller era in 1996

How could I possibly forget that golden age of Steelers QB play?
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PostSubject: Re: Next Steps for Steelers in 2017   Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:00 pm

@Atlanta Dan wrote:
@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
That P-G article is just shittipaldo writing some doom and gloom to try and get readership.  Consider the emergence of Cockrell, Davis and Burns this season compared to the previous year and the secondary is in a lot better place.  

Steelers just spent their #1 and #2 picks on secondary last year and he is saying cornerback should be priority #1.  The guy is a joke.

The article is pretty much a rewrite of what Gerry Dulac (who IMO used Butler as his source) was saying on twitter and in his P-G chat earlier this week

If Gay is gone I do not know how viable it is to be counting on a small CB who has not been able to make it out of training camp the past 2 seasons to step up.  Agreed that the 2016 secondary was an improvement but in the 2017 playoffs the Steelers are not just likely to see Brady again if they get there but someone like Carr, Mariota or Luck rather than Alex Smith and Matt Moore - getting torched on Sunday exposed ongoing issues

If the window is closing in the next 2 years maybe you do try to improve the defense again in the draft for both the short term and the long term since the offense probably is headed for hard times once Ben retires - I say that from the perspective of someone who assumes it is likely QB play will be grim for some time after Ben leaves after having watched this Murderer's Row of QBs between Bradshaw and Ben - Stoudt, Malone, Brister, O'Donnell, Tomczak, Kordell, Graham and Maddox

Yeah, they went secondary the last 2 seasons with Golson, Burns, Davis and premium picks. Golson should be fine, but if not, then they can find a slot guy in the 3rd round. Need to look at OLB and D line, but also a complimentary WR as you cant really bank on Bryant and Coates.

IMO, all the young Steeler fans are gonna experience what we did in the late 80's and early 90's when Ben retires. Just part of being a fan and the fairweathers can go find another bandwagon for all I care.
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