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 Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem

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Rhyno

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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:29 pm

@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
What social injustice is there?

If you do not think there is social injustice, I cannot help you - certainly not on a message board - and I am not going to argue about it. It would be fruitless.

I am about as white as you can get and I am %100 fine with who I am. I will never pretend to know what it is like to live in this country as a Black person. I will never tell them that what they are feeling/experiencing (social injustice/systemic racism) does not exist. I will certainly never tell them how to express themselves in response to their feelings and experiences. I fully support their right to do so in a peaceful way.

We have a big problem talking about race/racial issues in this country. Now we have a president who is calling these people using a peaceful protest (harming no one) to draw attention to their concerns "Sons of Bitches" and they should be fires, and he has plenty of supporters. This shit is crazy and embarrassing.
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Wallace108

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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:55 pm

@Rhyno wrote:

We have a big problem talking about race/racial issues in this country. Now we have a president who is calling these people using a peaceful protest (harming no one) to draw attention to their concerns "Sons of Bitches" and they should be fires, and he has plenty of supporters. This shit is crazy and embarrassing.

What I find a bit irritating is a lot of people are blaming Trump for the divisiveness. This problem existed long before Trump. And while his comments were ignorant and unhelpful, he's not the first president to use divisive language and actually make the problem worse.

The following story is long, but it's a good read ...
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_next_20/2016/09/the_henry_louis_gates_beer_summit_and_racial_division_in_america.html

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Wallace108

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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:03 pm

From Art II's statement:
"The intentions of Steelers players were to stay out of the business of making political statements by not taking the field. Unfortunately, that was interpreted as a boycott of the anthem -- which was never our players' intention."
--------------------------------------------------

I posted the following Rush song lyric in the game thread, and it still applies ...

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

Full Art II statement: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKp7qWPXUAAovxQ?format=jpg

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BKAnthem



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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:58 pm

@Rhyno wrote:
@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
What social injustice is there?

If you do not think there is social injustice, I cannot help you - certainly not on a message board - and I am not going to argue about it. It would be fruitless.

I am about as white as you can get and I am %100 fine with who I am. I will never pretend to know what it is like to live in this country as a Black person. I will never tell them that what they are feeling/experiencing (social injustice/systemic racism) does not exist. I will certainly never tell them how to express themselves in response to their feelings and experiences. I fully support their right to do so in a peaceful way.

We have a big problem talking about race/racial issues in this country. Now we have a president who is calling these people using a peaceful protest (harming no one) to draw attention to their concerns "Sons of Bitches" and they should be fires, and he has plenty of supporters. This shit is crazy and embarrassing.

IowaSteeler is one of those angry white men who think Black people get all the hand outs and breaks at the expense of hard working white folks,while conveniently forgetting the hundreds of years of injustices we had to endure (and still do) Hell we just go full voting rights not even 50 years ago...how pathetic is that? Like Black folks don't, Pay student loans, Get denied Jobs, Apts and Home Loans( Trump settled a huge lawsuit years ago because his real estate company was guilty of doing this to Black applicants), Pulled over for no reason while driving, Harassed in Dept Stores if we browse to long, all the while still loving this country that at times still treats us like 3rd class citizens...so if we protest something these angry white men don't like, now we're, "ungrateful" , or, we need to "go back where we came from". Funniest thing to me...i see more social media posts on how disrespectful Kaep allegedly is, than i saw about Neo Nazis marching in VA, go figure.
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IowaSteeler927

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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:20 pm

@BKAnthem wrote:
Its funny to me how so much of the viewing public is going Crazy over not standing for the Anthem...i've been to football games and have witnessed large numbers of people doing everything but stand for the Anthem, wheres the Outrage???

When a Philando Castille, Amadou Diallo, or a Walter Scott, get killed for no reason, While a Dylan Roof can massacre black church worshipers who welcomed him with open arms, and be arrested without a scratch on him... that's a social injustice.

That is the heart Of Kaepernicks peaceful Silent Protest..he's not burning flags, or physically spitting on troops, And he's even contributed his hard earned cash to help poor kids..he just doesn't want any more Walter Scotts..unjustified Shootings committed by people who under the laws of this country are supposed to protect us..not shoot us in the back, or shoot us or when we're trying to show you our concealed carry permit

So It gets frustrating to some of us back folks when we hear some white people telling us to pipe down because we now have freedoms that we basically had to claw and fight for, and at one time would be killed just for speaking it...when according to the constitution we have a right to do so.

The officer was acquitted in the Castille case. He was given due process of law, and acquitted fair and square. Castille admitted to having a firearm and then ignored commands of a police officer who told him not to reach in that area. What is that officer supposed to do? Wait until he does brandish his weapon and get shot? I mean if I tell a guy not to reach and he does it anyways then I'm going to shoot the guy as well, because I want to be alive at the end of the day. A police officer doesn't have a responsibility to get shot at first, before they defend themselves. Also the officer in that case is Hispanic, so claiming it's a social injustice and/or racial issue is a huge reach.

Fact of the matter is (in the bigger picture), so long as you have crimes being committed at a higher rate than any other racial group... You're going to have more arrests, uses of force, etc... against that racial group. It's a problem the black community needs to address and fix. Dads need to stop being deadbeats and sleeping around knocking up women out of wedlock. I watched a documentary on Netflix about a small high school football team in inner city Memphis. This team was like 95% black. The coach was talking to them and asked thrm who in here has a Dad and the majority of them had no Dad, or a Dad that wasn't in the picture. That's a real problem. Kids need their Fathers, kids need discipline. I see these kids being raised in dirty homes, with little to no parental supervision. That's a problem. That's why these kids turn to crime, and gangs because they don't have those positive forces in their lives like they should. That leads to future negative contacts with the police. The black community needs to step up, and if they do that we'll see less young people involved in crime, less in the correctional system, and less ending up on the wrong end of deadly force.

Honestly I work in a jail, I work around every race, social, and ethnical group in a giant melting pot. Being 100% honest, the black inmates, particularly the younger ones are the most defiant, disrespectful, and violent of all the racial groups in jail by a landslide. White/Hispanic/Asian inmates cause far less issues, at least from my 13 years of experience working in corrections.

It's a two way street. Law enforcement can always do better, but so can the black community, and anyone else for that matter.

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vasteeler

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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:21 pm

@BKAnthem wrote:
@Rhyno wrote:
@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
What social injustice is there?

If you do not think there is social injustice, I cannot help you - certainly not on a message board - and I am not going to argue about it. It would be fruitless.

I am about as white as you can get and I am %100 fine with who I am. I will never pretend to know what it is like to live in this country as a Black person. I will never tell them that what they are feeling/experiencing (social injustice/systemic racism) does not exist. I will certainly never tell them how to express themselves in response to their feelings and experiences. I fully support their right to do so in a peaceful way.

We have a big problem talking about race/racial issues in this country. Now we have a president who is calling these people using a peaceful protest (harming no one) to draw attention to their concerns "Sons of Bitches" and they should be fires, and he has plenty of supporters. This shit is crazy and embarrassing.

IowaSteeler is one of those angry white men who think Black people get all the hand outs and breaks at the expense of hard working white folks,while conveniently forgetting the hundreds of years of injustices we had to endure (and still do) Hell we just go full voting rights not even 50 years ago...how pathetic is that? Like Black folks don't, Pay student loans, Get denied Jobs, Apts and Home Loans( Trump settled a huge lawsuit years ago because his real estate company was guilty of  doing this to Black applicants), Pulled over for no reason while driving, Harassed in Dept Stores if we browse to long, all the while still loving this country that at times still treats us like 3rd class citizens...so if we protest something these angry white men don't like, now we're, "ungrateful" , or, we need to "go back where we came from".  Funniest thing to me...i see more social media posts on how disrespectful Kaep allegedly is, than i saw about Neo Nazis marching in VA, go figure.

Woah... Time for me to get out of this thread. This post was a bit uncalled for

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vasteeler

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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:24 pm

Matter of fact, if I we're still a mod I would close this thread

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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:26 pm

@BKAnthem wrote:
@Rhyno wrote:
@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
What social injustice is there?

If you do not think there is social injustice, I cannot help you - certainly not on a message board - and I am not going to argue about it. It would be fruitless.

I am about as white as you can get and I am %100 fine with who I am. I will never pretend to know what it is like to live in this country as a Black person. I will never tell them that what they are feeling/experiencing (social injustice/systemic racism) does not exist. I will certainly never tell them how to express themselves in response to their feelings and experiences. I fully support their right to do so in a peaceful way.

We have a big problem talking about race/racial issues in this country. Now we have a president who is calling these people using a peaceful protest (harming no one) to draw attention to their concerns "Sons of Bitches" and they should be fires, and he has plenty of supporters. This shit is crazy and embarrassing.

IowaSteeler is one of those angry white men who think Black people get all the hand outs and breaks at the expense of hard working white folks,while conveniently forgetting the hundreds of years of injustices we had to endure (and still do) Hell we just go full voting rights not even 50 years ago...how pathetic is that? Like Black folks don't, Pay student loans, Get denied Jobs, Apts and Home Loans( Trump settled a huge lawsuit years ago because his real estate company was guilty of  doing this to Black applicants), Pulled over for no reason while driving, Harassed in Dept Stores if we browse to long, all the while still loving this country that at times still treats us like 3rd class citizens...so if we protest something these angry white men don't like, now we're, "ungrateful" , or, we need to "go back where we came from".  Funniest thing to me...i see more social media posts on how disrespectful Kaep allegedly is, than i saw about Neo Nazis marching in VA, go figure.

This is part of the problem. I be honest, I put my opinion out there based on my own life experiences and I'm automatically chastised for being white and having an opinion on the black community that isn't 100% favorable. Like I don't recognize that the black community does good, or that black people in general are good. That's preposterous to say the very least. I have an Aunt that is married to a black man, and cousins that are mixed. I am not some closet racist, I celebrate diversity, and could really care less what the color of someone's skin is.

I simply believe in personal accountability and all these people want to point fingers at law enforcement while they ignore the root issues that leas up to the negative contacts with law enforcement in the first place.

I pointed out my experiences with minorities being treated better than I have because it is relevant, and demonstrates that minorities aren't always treated unfairly in the big picture of things.

Ultimately we can ALL do better. It is a two way street.

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Wallace108

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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:30 pm

@vasteeler wrote:
@BKAnthem wrote:
@Rhyno wrote:
@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
What social injustice is there?

If you do not think there is social injustice, I cannot help you - certainly not on a message board - and I am not going to argue about it. It would be fruitless.

I am about as white as you can get and I am %100 fine with who I am. I will never pretend to know what it is like to live in this country as a Black person. I will never tell them that what they are feeling/experiencing (social injustice/systemic racism) does not exist. I will certainly never tell them how to express themselves in response to their feelings and experiences. I fully support their right to do so in a peaceful way.

We have a big problem talking about race/racial issues in this country. Now we have a president who is calling these people using a peaceful protest (harming no one) to draw attention to their concerns "Sons of Bitches" and they should be fires, and he has plenty of supporters. This shit is crazy and embarrassing.

IowaSteeler is one of those angry white men who think Black people get all the hand outs and breaks at the expense of hard working white folks,while conveniently forgetting the hundreds of years of injustices we had to endure (and still do) Hell we just go full voting rights not even 50 years ago...how pathetic is that? Like Black folks don't, Pay student loans, Get denied Jobs, Apts and Home Loans( Trump settled a huge lawsuit years ago because his real estate company was guilty of  doing this to Black applicants), Pulled over for no reason while driving, Harassed in Dept Stores if we browse to long, all the while still loving this country that at times still treats us like 3rd class citizens...so if we protest something these angry white men don't like, now we're, "ungrateful" , or, we need to "go back where we came from".  Funniest thing to me...i see more social media posts on how disrespectful Kaep allegedly is, than i saw about Neo Nazis marching in VA, go figure.

Woah... Time for me to get out of this thread. This post was a bit uncalled for

I agree. Lets discuss the issues without making things personal. These are sensitive issues, and personal attacks never lead anyplace good.

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BKAnthem



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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:48 pm

Nah it wasn't uncalled for at all....See i also work in Corrections/Jail in NYC, and i also come across all races of inmates too..but i don't jump on here writing about how disrespectful the white inmates can be( my partner was knocked unconscious by a white inmate last year on my day off)...or calling all cops crooked every single time an unarmed Black man gets shot....Castille shooter was aquitted, when in fact Castille was unarmed and did actually have a carry permit, and it was basically a dead mans word against a cop...and the question still remains about why he was stopped in the first place....and lets also not gloss over the fact that none of us can probably remember when a white cop was ever convicted of shooting and killing an unarmed black man.

So my "personal attack" was directed at anyone who tries to jump up and say Black folks get all the breaks, at the expense of white people and there is no such thing as social injustice so we need to pipe down, like i read in IowaSteel's original post.
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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:02 pm

You're reading what I said and seeing it as what you want. At no point did I suggest black people get all the breaks. I pointed out my personal experiences that go against the suggestion that only black people face social injustices. As I've stated before, we can all do better. As human beings we can do better. Regardless of race, color, or creed. We can all do better. The finger of blame shouldn't only be pointed at law enforcement, the issues we're having are caused by far more than just law enforcement, but nobody wants to acknowledge that. When did I tell anyone to pipe down? I said basically that I'm sick of hearing one-sided views in regards to social injustices and racial issues and articulated at length my own opinion based on my own experiences. Everyone has their own experiences, I know that, but my opinion is based in my own and I won't apologize for it, nor will I stoop to insulting you for having your own opinion based in your own experiences. I believe these issues can be discussed without stooping to that level.

Also to address the white/black inmates issue... I didn't say white inmates don't cause issues, inmates of all races cause issues. I said that the black inmates as a whole are the worst, which is the truth from my own experiences. When I kick a white guy out of my housing unit they might jaw at me, maybe even physically resist me, or attempt to assault me. That's the risk with anyone. But the only inmates that immediately accuse me of doing what I'm doing because of race are the black inmates. Nevermind the fact they're breaking the rules, and continuing to do so after multiple warnings... I'm picking on them because I am racist...  It's ridiculous. That's what I deal with. Perhaps you've dealt with the same from white inmates, I don't know because I can only speak to my personal experiences. I try to treat everyone fairly, and again I don't care what color your skin is, I treat everyone the same.

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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:11 pm

Go back and re read your response to social injustice, and if you actually feel that way about Black people i have no more to say to you..

It also isn't lost on me that you got a total pass for that post from the same people who wanted the thread closed down because of mine..
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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:16 pm

@BKAnthem wrote:
Go back and re read your response to social injustice, and if you actually feel that way about Black people i have no more to say to you..

It also isn't lost on me that you got a total pass for that post from the same people who wanted the thread closed down because of mine..

I don't need to reread it, you're twisting it into something that it's not. There are social injustices experienced by all, not just black people. That's what my original post boils down to. You don't have to agree with it. That's why we're having a discussion. We all come from different walks of life, we all have different experiences that mold our opinions. Like Wally said this is a sensitive issue, but I believe we should be able to discuss it instead of shying away from it, or insulting someone for their views.

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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:40 pm

On another note, did anyone else see the national news tonight talking about the Steelers/Villanueva situation? Fans were on there burning their Steelers gear... How stupid. I never took the Steelers actions as a form of protest, I took it as them trying to be neutral in the situation. Honestly I think they'd of been better off simply coming out for the Anthem, but I have the benefit of hindsight which is awlways 20/20. The media of course didn't explain that the rest of the team was standing in the tunnel right behind AV, nor did they explain that the players did it to remain neutral. For me it demonstrates how the media will omit certain facts to fit the narrative they want to put out.

Honestly I think this whole thing is getting way blown out of proportion. If people want to kneel, whatever, go ahead. I don't agree with it but they have the right to do so. I think there is better ways to try and effect change, more tangible ways that don't involve protesting on-the-job but the situation is what it is. Either way burning your Steelers gear is insane. Talk about a knee-jerk overreaction. I love my Steelers, and until they do something very wrong I'll support them even if I don't necessarily agree with an individual player's personal views.

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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:51 pm

aaaaand, this is where i bow out of this thread, lol. i just find political discussions to be exhausting, no matter how well you present your point, the fact of the matter is you're never going to sway anybody, so why even bother?
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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:08 pm

@Fire Arians wrote:
aaaaand, this is where i bow out of this thread, lol. i just find political discussions to be exhausting, no matter how well you present your point, the fact of the matter is you're never going to sway anybody, so why even bother?

That's what makes it hard to discuss these issues, everyone has an emotional investment, but the only way we effect change and get better as a Nation is discussing it.

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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:22 pm

@BKAnthem wrote:


It also isn't lost on me that you got a total pass for that post from the same people who wanted the thread closed down because of mine..

Can you point me to where Iowa attacked anyone personally? Everyone here is held to the same standard. Also, who wanted the thread closed down? I don't see any post that mentions closing it down.

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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:26 pm

@Wallace108 wrote:
@BKAnthem wrote:


It also isn't lost on me that you got a total pass for that post from the same people who wanted the thread closed down because of mine..

Can you point me to where Iowa attacked anyone personally? Everyone here is held to the same standard. Also, who wanted the thread closed down? I don't see any post that mentions closing it down.

VA did say he'd close the thread down if he was a mod here, I think that's what was referred to.

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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:33 pm

@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
@Wallace108 wrote:
@BKAnthem wrote:


It also isn't lost on me that you got a total pass for that post from the same people who wanted the thread closed down because of mine..

Can you point me to where Iowa attacked anyone personally? Everyone here is held to the same standard. Also, who wanted the thread closed down? I don't see any post that mentions closing it down.

VA did say he'd close the thread down if he was a mod here, I think that's what was referred to.

Oh, ok. I see it now. Not sure how I missed that post, but I did.

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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:55 pm

Just to lighten things up a bit.


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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:56 pm

@Mach1 wrote:
Just to lighten things up a bit.





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vasteeler

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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:06 pm

@BKAnthem wrote:
Go back and re read your response to social injustice, and if you actually feel that way about Black people i have no more to say to you..

It also isn't lost on me that you got a total pass for that post from the same people who wanted the thread closed down because of mine..

Damn, why couldn't I stay a way.  It wasn't your post that would make me want to shut it down. It's the temperature of the whole thread.  If you knew me you would know I don't single  people out at all... Except Buddha Bus

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IowaSteeler927

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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:10 pm

@vasteeler wrote:
@BKAnthem wrote:
Go back and re read your response to social injustice, and if you actually feel that way about Black people i have no more to say to you..

It also isn't lost on me that you got a total pass for that post from the same people who wanted the thread closed down because of mine..

Damn, why couldn't I stay a way.  It wasn't your post that would make me want to shut it down. It's the temperature of the whole thread.  If you knew me you would know I don't single  people out at all... Except Buddha Bus

Man Buddha where the heck is that guy? Need his sense of humor back!

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RIP to the late great B.B. King the Mayor of Bluesville
RIP Tyler Sash #9. Greatest Hawkeye Safety to ever don the black & gold.
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Wallace108

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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:41 pm

Villanueva Donates All Proceeds Of NFL Merchandise Sales To Military Non-Profits

Pittsburgh Steelers tackle Alejandro Villanueva has unwillingly been in the national media spotlight the last several days thanks to him being out front of the rest of his teammates during Sundays pregame national anthem. Since that happened, the former Army captain’s merchandise has reportedly been flying off the internet shelves and that in turn will reportedly help out several non-profit organizations.

In case you didn’t already know it, NFL players receive proceeds from their jersey and apparel retail sales and according to Adam Schefter of ESPN, Villanueva is donating all his proceeds to USO and other military non-profits, just as he’s always done.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/09/villanueva-donates-proceeds-nfl-merchandise-sales-military-non-profits/

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IowaSteeler927

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PostSubject: Re: Villanueva, Steelers, and the anthem   Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:43 pm

@Wallace108 wrote:
Villanueva Donates All Proceeds Of NFL Merchandise Sales To Military Non-Profits

Pittsburgh Steelers tackle Alejandro Villanueva has unwillingly been in the national media spotlight the last several days thanks to him being out front of the rest of his teammates during Sundays pregame national anthem. Since that happened, the former Army captain’s merchandise has reportedly been flying off the internet shelves and that in turn will reportedly help out several non-profit organizations.

In case you didn’t already know it, NFL players receive proceeds from their jersey and apparel retail sales and according to Adam Schefter of ESPN, Villanueva is donating all his proceeds to USO and other military non-profits, just as he’s always done.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/09/villanueva-donates-proceeds-nfl-merchandise-sales-military-non-profits/

This is how you make a difference! Might just have to shell out for an AV jersey!

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RIP to the late great B.B. King the Mayor of Bluesville
RIP Tyler Sash #9. Greatest Hawkeye Safety to ever don the black & gold.
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