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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:09 am

If this piss poor play continues I can't see the FO not making changes at the end of this season. It has become painfully obvious that this team is running itself. Tomlin,Butler,Fichner don't seem to have a clue how to fix this lack of discipline. And since they are all part of the "good old boy" fraternity maybe it will be time to clean house. It appears that right now all they are doing is drawing a paycheck they haven't earned.

It seems to me that AB and Fichner are at odds about something. Everyone knows we need more drama this season. I predicted 13-3 but 2 games in we're looking like a 7-9 team.

Maybe we get a shot at Devin White out of LSU. Too soon? Probably but I've lost all confidence in this team already this year.
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effyou515



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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:38 am

@Lokki wrote:
@effyou515 wrote:
Hope they start Dobbs next week

3 different offensive coordinators, 1 starting QB, same shitty offense, new OC lets try a different QB.

Steelers have a very good offensive line, running game and WRs seems like Ben might be the problem.

Ben was off of the mark a few times, but I don't think he is the issue.  The defense made Mahomes look like Tom Brady.  He passed for 6 touchdowns.  We couldn't stop the pass and couldn't stop the run.  We put up 37 points, that doesn't point to Ben being the issue.  

if your defense is going up against Ben you don't have to defend between the LOS and the 10 yards down field it will be a run or a pass over 10 yards. I'm on Ben right now because he won't take what the defense gives him he's always forcing the ball deep.

I'm not getting on the defense because this is Tomlin's expertise and right now I think Tomlin and Butler need take their defensive system else where.

so imo it Ben,Tomlin and Butler that is holding the Steelers back.

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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:42 am

Tomlin needs to be held accountable for the total lack of discipline. Butler needs to be held accountable as well, that defense (if we can even call it that) was literally painful to sit and watch. How the hell can I see that Travis Kelce was left uncovered, but a coach can't spot that and use a timeout to shore things up?

Unbelievable.

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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:43 am

@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
Tomlin needs to be held accountable for the total lack of discipline. Butler needs to be held accountable as well, that defense (if we can even call it that) was literally painful to sit and watch. How the hell can I see that Travis Kelce was left uncovered, but a coach can't spot that and use a timeout to shore things up?

Unbelievable.

It was painful to watch on TV. I can only imagine being able to see the whole field in real time. You're right Kelce was open all damn day. I could see that. In the game day thread I'm pretty sure I also used the phrase "painful to watch"!

Here was me at the end of the first quarter and then at the end of the fourth quarter.
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effyou515



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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:46 am

@solardave wrote:
@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
Tomlin needs to be held accountable for the total lack of discipline. Butler needs to be held accountable as well, that defense (if we can even call it that) was literally painful to sit and watch. How the hell can I see that Travis Kelce was left uncovered, but a coach can't spot that and use a timeout to shore things up?

Unbelievable.

It was painful to watch on TV. I can only imagine being able to see the whole field in real time. You're right Kelce was open all damn day. I could see that. In the game day thread I'm pretty sure I also used the phrase "painful to watch"!

Here was me at the end of the first quarter and then at the end of the fourth quarter.

if you think back over the years for some reason the Steelers Defense just don't put a high priority to cover the TE. First it was LeBeau's and now Butler's defense.

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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:26 pm

@effyou515 wrote:
@solardave wrote:
@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
Tomlin needs to be held accountable for the total lack of discipline. Butler needs to be held accountable as well, that defense (if we can even call it that) was literally painful to sit and watch. How the hell can I see that Travis Kelce was left uncovered, but a coach can't spot that and use a timeout to shore things up?

Unbelievable.

It was painful to watch on TV. I can only imagine being able to see the whole field in real time. You're right Kelce was open all damn day. I could see that. In the game day thread I'm pretty sure I also used the phrase "painful to watch"!

Here was me at the end of the first quarter and then at the end of the fourth quarter.

if you think back over the years for some reason the Steelers Defense just don't put a high priority to cover the TE. First it was LeBeau's and now Butler's defense.

And the Pats* have exploited that year after year and the Chiefs followed suit. I wish that we could find ways to counter other teams offense and defense instead of just going with the "standard".

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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:04 am

It appears to me, Tomlin has lost the respect of this team and the patients are running the asylum.

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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:39 am

@stlrtruck wrote:
It appears to me, Tomlin has lost the respect of this team and the patients are running the asylum.

I was thinking that this circus isn't going to stop until someone stops it. What proof do we have that Tomlin is that someone? I won't even listen to or read his press releases. There is an old saying that comes to mind. "what you're doing speaks so loud that I can't hear what you're saying".

If we come back from Tampa @ 0-2-1 I'm not sure I want to watch any more of this season and the shit show it is becoming. We can't seem to make it through a season without some form of drama. To the point of becoming an embarrassment to us fans.
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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:19 am

If you fire Tomlin tomorrow, who replaces him? Butler? Fitchner? Tom Bradley?

I think we are riding or dying with Tomlin. If the season sinks, Ben ultimately retires at the end of the year, and AB goes full looney tunes, Tomlin and the coaching staff are gone and we begin a new era.
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:24 am

@jak341 wrote:
If you fire Tomlin tomorrow, who replaces him? Butler? Fitchner? Tom Bradley?

I think we are riding or dying with Tomlin. If the season sinks, Ben ultimately retires at the end of the year, and AB goes full looney tunes,  Tomlin and the coaching staff are gone and we begin a new era.

The FO is not going to fire anyone during the season. I'm pretty sure of that. I'm not even sure they'd fire Tomlin if we go 8-8 because they never have done business that way.

I will say this. Tomlin's stock is falling and if we can't win soon public opinion will probably force the issue at the end of the season.
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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:32 am

@solardave wrote:
@jak341 wrote:
If you fire Tomlin tomorrow, who replaces him? Butler? Fitchner? Tom Bradley?

I think we are riding or dying with Tomlin. If the season sinks, Ben ultimately retires at the end of the year, and AB goes full looney tunes,  Tomlin and the coaching staff are gone and we begin a new era.

The FO is not going to fire anyone during the season. I'm pretty sure of that. I'm not even sure they'd fire Tomlin if we go 8-8 because they never have done business that way.

I will say this. Tomlin's stock is falling and if we can't win soon public opinion will probably force the issue at the end of the season.

I think it goes beyond win loss records. There is a growing consensus in the local media that Tomlin, and the Rooneys, have lost control of this incarnation of the team. There are a lot of big personalities on this team. It takes a strong willed coach to bring order to it all.

Let's see what happens with the AB situation. AB went AWOL for a practice. AB should be suspended for a game. Anyone else would be to send a message. Will he be? I sincerely doubt it. It shows there is no order in the locker room, and the inmates are running the asylum.

But you're right. No moves will be made during the season unless something absolutely bizarre happens.
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:15 pm

@jak341 wrote:
@solardave wrote:
@jak341 wrote:
If you fire Tomlin tomorrow, who replaces him? Butler? Fitchner? Tom Bradley?

I think we are riding or dying with Tomlin. If the season sinks, Ben ultimately retires at the end of the year, and AB goes full looney tunes,  Tomlin and the coaching staff are gone and we begin a new era.

The FO is not going to fire anyone during the season. I'm pretty sure of that. I'm not even sure they'd fire Tomlin if we go 8-8 because they never have done business that way.

I will say this. Tomlin's stock is falling and if we can't win soon public opinion will probably force the issue at the end of the season.

I think it goes beyond win loss records. There is a growing consensus in the local media that Tomlin, and the Rooneys, have lost control of this incarnation of the team. There are a lot of big personalities on this team. It takes a strong willed coach to bring order to it all.

Let's see what happens with the AB situation. AB went AWOL for a practice. AB should be suspended for a game. Anyone else would be to send a message. Will he be? I sincerely doubt it. It shows there is no order in the locker room, and the inmates are running the asylum.

But you're right. No moves will be made during the season unless something absolutely bizarre happens.

I absolutely agree it goes beyond win/loss records but if we're winning these distractions seem to be more tolerable. Don't you think? When you lose or tie they are glaring and to compound the problem they are not being addressed.

I seriously doubt anything will be done about AB except Fichtner will be told to get him involved enough to shut him up.
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Wallace108

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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:05 pm

@solardave wrote:
I'm not even sure they'd fire Tomlin if we go 8-8 because they never have done business that way.

We have to be careful in thinking that the way they do things now is the same as they always did things. What you're saying is true when Dan ran the team. But Art II isn't Dan. His life experience around the team isn't the same as Dan's was. We've already seen Art do things differently than Dan would have, and we're going to see it a lot more when all of Dan's people are gone (there's not many left) and the team is run exclusively by all of Art's people.

With that said, I agree that Tomlin doesn't get fired if they go 8-8. Or even if they finish with a losing record. But with Art running the team, there's a possibility that we're wrong. The Steelers Way as we grew up knowing it isn't the same Steelers Way of today.

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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:05 pm

@Wallace108 wrote:
@solardave wrote:
I'm not even sure they'd fire Tomlin if we go 8-8 because they never have done business that way.

We have to be careful in thinking that the way they do things now is the same as they always did things. What you're saying is true when Dan ran the team. But Art II isn't Dan. His life experience around the team isn't the same as Dan's was. We've already seen Art do things differently than Dan would have, and we're going to see it a lot more when all of Dan's people are gone (there's not many left) and the team is run exclusively by all of Art's people.

With that said, I agree that Tomlin doesn't get fired if they go 8-8. Or even if they finish with a losing record. But with Art running the team, there's a possibility that we're wrong. The Steelers Way as we grew up knowing it isn't the same Steelers Way of today.

This is an excellent post. I agree the likelihood Tomlin is fired is low. But, this is based on past experience as a fan watching from the outside. Every problem contains its own solution. The set of problems being dealt with now are some that weren't even an issue 15 years ago, i.e., Social Media. I also do not remember Franco and Swann causing the type problems Bell and AB do, or having any star player coddled the way it seems AB is.

I remember hearing one time the Rooneys saying they look for someone as a coach who can stand in front of the team, command their attention, make them follow. I'm not sure that's happening right now.


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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:13 pm

Paul Zeise's reply to this question at Q&A at PPG:

Ron Matthews, Greensburg: Not will he, but should Mike Tomlin be on the hot seat if this Steelers team that was picked by many to go to the Super Bowl does not make the playoffs?

Zeise: The Steelers don’t fire coaches, so the point is probably moot. I like Mike Tomlin. I think he is good coach, and he has been an excellent fit. He has done some really good things, but his body of work since 2010, given what he has had to work with, is not good enough. He should have more than three playoff wins in that time, especially considering those wins (Miami with a backup, Cincinnati gift-wrapped by two idiot defensive players and perennial playoff underachievers Alex Smith and the Chiefs) aren’t all that impressive. He has had Ben Roethlisberger, one of the top five quarterbacks in the NFL for at least the last 10 years, and enough weapons to pile up regular-season wins. It is the playoffs that this team should be judged on. And to that end, he is 3-5 in his last eight playoff games and 8-7 overall. There are some who think his Super Bowl trophy gets him a lifetime contract, and that is just absurd. Plenty of good coaches have been fired even after winning a championship. He has seemingly turned the Steelers into Dan Bylsma’s Penguins — and that isn’t a compliment. I’m not saying he should be fired, but he certainly should have some pressure on him to advance in the postseason.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/09/19/mike-tomlin-nfl-coaches-hot-seat-antonio-brown-trade/stories/201809190099

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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:17 pm

The quote below was made from a fan on Twitter. I'm posting it as a quote rather than a Tweet ... there's no need to call out an individual fan, especially when many share this argument ...

Quote :
It’s what I have been saying for years...he inherited Cowhers team and then the fall of Tomlins team began.
.

I'm a fan of both Cowher and Tomlin. Neither were perfect coaches, but I think both were the right coaches in rhe right place at the right time. Over the years, fans have romanticized Cowher's time in Pittsburgh. They seem to forget that before winning Super Bowl XL, a lot of fans were calling for his head.

Just a few random points ...

1. Yes, it's true, as the fan on Twiiter states, that Tomlin inherited Cowher's players, and he won a Super Bowl with them. What this argument fails to consider is that Cowher inherited Noll's players and got to a Super Bowl with them. He lost though. After a decade of mediocrity, Noll built a strong team in the 90s. Cowher didn't take over a bottom feeding team like the Browns ... he took over a team built to win a championship. Had he stayed, Knoll might have won a fifth Super Bowl.

2. After Noll's players left or retired, the Steelers had a number of losing seasons before the team could be rebuilt. By comparison, Tomlin has kept the team competitive while rebuilding it after Cowher's players left or retired. Tomlin didn't have 6-10 and 7-9 seasons like Cowher did.

3. Tomlin deserves the same amount of respect as Cowher. I'm sorry, but saying that he won only because he had Cowher's players is a lazy argument. How many Super Bowls did Cowher win with Cowher's players? People will counter with, "Yes, but unlike Cowher, Tomlin had Ben in his prime."  ... To which I would respond, "So what? Shula had Marino for his entire career. How many Super Bowls did they win?"

Bottom line ... regardless of how all this plays out, Steelers were lucky to have both Cowher and Tomlin after the success Noll had. Just like Noll, Shula produced a lot of mediocrity after his great success with the Dolphins in the 70s. Just like Noll, it was time for him to go. But look what has happened to the Dolphins compared with the Steelers since then. We've been spoiled. So much so that anything short of a Super Bowl win is considered a total failure and a reason to tear it all down and start over.

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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:48 pm

@Wallace108 wrote:
The quote below was made from a fan on Twitter. I'm posting it as a quote rather than a Tweet ... there's no need to call out an individual fan, especially when many share this argument ...

Quote :
It’s what I have been saying for years...he inherited Cowhers team and then the fall of Tomlins team began.
.

I'm a fan of both Cowher and Tomlin. Neither were perfect coaches, but I think both were the right coaches in rhe right place at the right time. Over the years, fans have romanticized Cowher's time in Pittsburgh. They seem to forget that before winning Super Bowl XL, a lot of fans were calling for his head.

Just a few random points ...

1. Yes, it's true, as the fan on Twiiter states, that Tomlin inherited Cowher's players, and he won a Super Bowl with them. What this argument fails to consider is that Cowher inherited Noll's players and got to a Super Bowl with them. He lost though. After a decade of mediocrity, Noll built a strong team in the 90s. Cowher didn't take over a bottom feeding team like the Browns ... he took over a team built to win a championship. Had he stayed, Knoll might have won a fifth Super Bowl.

2. After Noll's players left or retired, the Steelers had a number of losing seasons before the team could be rebuilt. By comparison, Tomlin has kept the team competitive while rebuilding it after Cowher's players left or retired. Tomlin didn't have 6-10 and 7-9 seasons like Cowher did.

3. Tomlin deserves the same amount of respect as Cowher. I'm sorry, but saying that he won only because he had Cowher's players is a lazy argument. How many Super Bowls did Cowher win with Cowher's players? People will counter with, "Yes, but unlike Cowher, Tomlin had Ben in his prime."  ... To which I would respond, "So what? Shula had Marino for his entire career. How many Super Bowls did they win?"

Bottom line ... regardless of how all this plays out, Steelers were lucky to have both Cowher and Tomlin after the success Noll had. Just like Noll, Shula produced a lot of mediocrity after his great success with the Dolphins in the 70s. Just like Noll, it was time for him to go. But look what has happened to the Dolphins compared with the Steelers since then. We've been spoiled. So much so that anything short of a Super Bowl win is considered a total failure and a reason to tear it all down and start over.

Your points are all good ones and valid. The problem is and there is no reason to believe it's going to change is discipline. Noll and Cowher did not have social media but they had strong willed players. They dealt with them by drawing a line. Tomlin has not done that. Noll had Joe Greene. Nobody messed with Joe. Cowher had guys like Greg Loyd and Kevin Greene. All of these guys were leaders and led by example. Who does Tomlin have? Since all these guys are his the argument can be made that he created this problem by #1 not bringing in guys that can lead. And #2 not leading like a disciplinarian like Noll would. It's not just Tomlin this entire league has gotten soft as hell. But we are talking about Tomlin's team and what he hasn't done is put his foot down.
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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:51 pm

Tomlin says There will be discipline for Brown missing practice.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000964095/article/tomlin-antonio-brown-missing-meetings-led-to-discipline

Well now. Slap me and call me Suzy.
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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:17 pm

@solardave wrote:
Tomlin says There will be discipline for Brown missing practice.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000964095/article/tomlin-antonio-brown-missing-meetings-led-to-discipline

Well now. Slap me and call me Suzy.

It's been a long time since we've given anyone a nickname. Congratulations Suzy Q.

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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:24 pm


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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:57 pm

@Wallace108 wrote:

That's good news

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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:36 am

Monday night we'll know if it had any affect.
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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:35 am

@Wallace108 wrote:

I have full confidence that he reminded them that "obviously" the "Standard is the Standard" and that they need to make more "splash plays".

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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:42 am

It's hard to suddenly change from laid back to authoritarian and have the same impact.

This culture didn't spring up overnight; it has been here for years. One day of yelling isn't changing anything.
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PostSubject: Re: fire the coach   Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:22 pm

He must of took away the foosball table.

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