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 Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)

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Wallace108

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:56 am

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Ben started slow, but the loss wasn't on him.

I agree ... we can't blame this loss on Ben. But we also shouldn't pretend that he had a great game. Sure, his performance was much improved over last week's, but despite the stats, Ben was still off his game. Most of his completions were short passes and dump offs, with receivers racking up a lot of yards after the catch. His downfield throws were horrible, and there were more than a handful of passes that weren't even close to being catchable, especially early in the game. On a day when the defense was atrocious and needed the offense to win the game, the offense took too long to get going. While the 21 in the 21-0 start falls on the defense, the 0 falls on the offense and Ben's struggle to get the ball to receivers. Again, I'm not blaming Ben for the loss. But on a day when we needed him to be at his best, he wasn't.

Quote :
The D is just that bad. The talent is there, but the execution is severely lacking.

Yep. The coverage and tackling were horrible. And the schemes didn't help. This looked exactly like the defense we saw get shredded by the Jags in January. Something needs to change, and I think that something is defensive coordinator.

Quote :
Artie Burns isn't heading towards a bust, but he is trending downward week by week.

I wouldn't say he's a bust, but he's way too inconsistent.

Quote :
Little to no pass rush again.

The pass rush was strong last week because the secondary was covering well. Most of the sacks last week were coverage sacks. This game, the combination of poor secondary play and Mahomes getting rid of the ball quickly neutralized our pass rush.

Quote :
Until the D can sure up the secondary, expect to see teams run wide formations on them, and pass everywhere on there.

Yep.

Quote :
Again, angles, tackling, and simple coverage were awful. Lots of breakdowns in coverage as well.

Yep.

Quote :
Heavy criticism of Jordan Berry and the STs.

The defense is getting all the attention, but special teams were just as bad. There was one good punt. Everything else was a total failure. I'm probably wrong, but it seemed like we got a penalty on every punt and kick return.

Quote :
AB and Flichner were in a very heated argument on the sidelines. Someone came over and had to come in to break them up.

I thought getting rid of Haley would be the end of the sideline drama. Apparently not. Something is going on with AB. I don't know what it is, but something is wrong ... either physically or mentally. Or both.

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:59 am

Dungy on Steelers defense: 'Tomlin needs to get that fixed'

Forty years after he last played for the Pittsburgh Steelers and 30 years after he was the team’s defensive coordinator, Tony Dungy sees a defense that he doesn’t recognize.

The Steel Curtain, it isn’t.

After the Steelers surrendered six touchdown passes in a 42-37 loss Sunday to the Kansas City Chiefs, Dungy expressed his concern on NBC’s “Football Night in America” in his role as studio analyst.

“It’s bad, and it has nothing to do with Le’Veon Bell not being there,” Dungy said. “The defensive side of the ball — missed tackle after missed tackle, blown coverages, guys running wide open, no discipline on defense.

“Mike Tomlin needs to get that fixed.”

https://triblive.com/sports/steelers/14087299-74/dungy-on-steelers-defense-tomlin-needs-to-get-that-fixed
---------------------------------



He's not wrong.

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:15 am

How many more years is it gonna take for Tomlin to get it "fixed"
It's been happening for a few years now.




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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:23 am

@Wallace108 wrote:
Dungy on Steelers defense: 'Tomlin needs to get that fixed'

Forty years after he last played for the Pittsburgh Steelers and 30 years after he was the team’s defensive coordinator, Tony Dungy sees a defense that he doesn’t recognize.

The Steel Curtain, it isn’t.

After the Steelers surrendered six touchdown passes in a 42-37 loss Sunday to the Kansas City Chiefs, Dungy expressed his concern on NBC’s “Football Night in America” in his role as studio analyst.

“It’s bad, and it has nothing to do with Le’Veon Bell not being there,” Dungy said. “The defensive side of the ball — missed tackle after missed tackle, blown coverages, guys running wide open, no discipline on defense.


“Mike Tomlin needs to get that fixed.”

https://triblive.com/sports/steelers/14087299-74/dungy-on-steelers-defense-tomlin-needs-to-get-that-fixed
---------------------------------



He's not wrong.


This is consistently bad. The script remains the same year after year. I do not believe the defensive players are that bad ILB maybe, but I feel like better scheming and coaching would make them better. Not #1 defense better but good enough that when the offense scores 37 and 42 in the last 2 home games they win the game. I don't understand how basic fundamentals like tackling are a problem every single year.  The offense comes back from 21-0, and kept it close for a little while. The D just let them walk up and down the field. It reminded me of when we played in the backyard as kids and after a while we had to keep score by counting TDs as 1 point.

I started watching the Steelers at the end of the Steel Curtain days, Cowher's D's in the 90's were nearly as good, we built another great one the first 10 years of the 2000's. Defense is a Steeler tradition. It is hard to take this nonsense.

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:30 am

@Mach1 wrote:
How many more years is it gonna take for Tomlin to get it "fixed"
It's been happening for a few years now.




Yeah, it's not a new problem. What bothers me is how close Tomlin and Butler are. I saw a profile on them before the Browns game, and up to that point, I was unaware that they coached together in college. They have a lot of history together. That might explain why Haley was fired and Butler still has a job.

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:34 am

@LambertWardSteel wrote:
@Wallace108 wrote:
Dungy on Steelers defense: 'Tomlin needs to get that fixed'

Forty years after he last played for the Pittsburgh Steelers and 30 years after he was the team’s defensive coordinator, Tony Dungy sees a defense that he doesn’t recognize.

The Steel Curtain, it isn’t.

After the Steelers surrendered six touchdown passes in a 42-37 loss Sunday to the Kansas City Chiefs, Dungy expressed his concern on NBC’s “Football Night in America” in his role as studio analyst.

“It’s bad, and it has nothing to do with Le’Veon Bell not being there,” Dungy said. “The defensive side of the ball — missed tackle after missed tackle, blown coverages, guys running wide open, no discipline on defense.


“Mike Tomlin needs to get that fixed.”

https://triblive.com/sports/steelers/14087299-74/dungy-on-steelers-defense-tomlin-needs-to-get-that-fixed
---------------------------------



He's not wrong.


This is consistently bad. The script remains the same year after year. I do not believe the defensive players are that bad ILB maybe, but I feel like better scheming and coaching would make them better. Not #1 defense better but good enough that when the offense scores 37 and 42 in the last 2 home games they win the game. I don't understand how basic fundamentals like tackling are a problem every single year.  The offense comes back from 21-0, and kept it close for a little while. The D just let them walk up and down the field. It reminded me of when we played in the backyard as kids and after a while we had to keep score by counting TDs as 1 point.

I started watching the Steelers at the end of the Steel Curtain days, Cowher's D's in the 90's were nearly as good, we built another great one the first 10 years of the 2000's. Defense is a Steeler tradition. It is hard to take this nonsense.

Well said.

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:37 am

@Wallace108 wrote:
@Mach1 wrote:
How many more years is it gonna take for Tomlin to get it "fixed"
It's been happening for a few years now.




Yeah, it's not a new problem. What bothers me is how close Tomlin and Butler are. I saw a profile on them before the Browns game, and up to that point, I was unaware that they coached together in college. They have a lot of history together. That might explain why Haley was fired and Butler still has a job.

Butler should have been fired after last season. Tomlin took over the defensive calling last year. So it's not all on Butler and is Tomlin doing the same this year?


“[Tomlin] called many of the defensive plays from the sideline this season. He also took charge of many of the secondary meetings and those with the entire defense.”

https://steelersdepot.com/2018/01/bouchette-mike-tomlin-ran-steelers-defense-2017/

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:46 am

@Mach1 wrote:
@Wallace108 wrote:
@Mach1 wrote:
How many more years is it gonna take for Tomlin to get it "fixed"
It's been happening for a few years now.




Yeah, it's not a new problem. What bothers me is how close Tomlin and Butler are. I saw a profile on them before the Browns game, and up to that point, I was unaware that they coached together in college. They have a lot of history together. That might explain why Haley was fired and Butler still has a job.

Butler should have been fired after last season. Tomlin took over the defensive calling last year.  So it's not all on Butler and is Tomlin doing the same this year?


“[Tomlin] called many of the defensive plays from the sideline this season. He also took charge of many of the secondary meetings and those with the entire defense.”

https://steelersdepot.com/2018/01/bouchette-mike-tomlin-ran-steelers-defense-2017/

I forgot about that. From that article...

Keith Butler received plenty of heat this season – myself included – for fielding a defense that faded down the stretch and struggled to communicate throughout the entire season.

Saw this a few hours ago ..



Hmm, sounds familiar.

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:53 am

I didn't know they were bud's either. Probably why he still has his job.

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:56 am

Butler needs to fix the defense, that’s his job. The only fixing Tomlin should do is finding a DC that can fix it if butler can’t.
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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:05 am

@Mach1 wrote:
I didn't know they were bud's either. Probably why he still has his job.

They coached together at Memphis and Arkansas State. Fichtner was with them at Arkansas. So yeah, it's not shocking that Butler kept his job after last season, and Haley was fired and replaced with Fichtner. Here's a story from a few years ago ...

http://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/Pittsburgh-Magazine/December-2015/Why-Steelers-Chose-Keith-Butler-to-Succeed-Dick-LeBeau/

Tomlin on Butler...

“I probably worked more and spent more time with him in football than anybody in my professional life.”

I'm not sure how much say Tomlin has, but I can't see him supporting Butler getting fired. At least not without a fight.

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:24 am

I'm borrowing that if you don't mind.

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:27 am

@Mach1 wrote:
I'm borrowing that if you don't mind.

I expect royalties.

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:59 am

What's up with the number changes? Davis was wearing #21 and Hilton was wearing #28. It was hard to tell who was screwing up the most. Burns was easy because he is still #25 and you could see him on most plays just outside the coverage zone. I don't know if anyone in the secondary was in place all game. Dupree had 2 penalties for neutral zone infraction. They put McCullers in and he drives their LG back into Mahomes to cause the only sack of the game for us and then we never see him again.
We looked like a (missed) tackle machine out there.

On offense we didn't wake up until the second quarter, then went back to sleep. The only constant in this game was the anxiety of having to watch it.

I can't think of one player who deserves a game ball except James. Ju Ju even dropped one or two balls. AB couldn't get open and except for the short TD flip Washington was overthrown all day. Although Ben made some plays he also missed on every long pass and had some poor throws in the shorter ones.

I said they are bi-polar but I'm starting to think they're schizophrenic. They're killing us fans. Burns, Davis, and Burnett look like backups. Hilton who has played pretty good when he's in looked terrible.

STs looked real special. Not in a good way. More like short bus special. Berry had one good punt and honestly he got lucky with the bounce. The safety was probably the defense' best play all game.

With the exception of McCullers bull rush no one else seemed interested in taking Mahomes down. I can see us going into Tampa bay and shittin' all over ourselves right now.
We've reached a point where there is no evidence that anything is going to change with this team.

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:42 am

@Wallace108 wrote:
Quote :
Ben started slow, but the loss wasn't on him.

I agree ... we can't blame this loss on Ben. But we also shouldn't pretend that he had a great game. Sure, his performance was much improved over last week's, but despite the stats, Ben was still off his game. Most of his completions were short passes and dump offs, with receivers racking up a lot of yards after the catch. His downfield throws were horrible, and there were more than a handful of passes that weren't even close to being catchable, especially early in the game. On a day when the defense was atrocious and needed the offense to win the game, the offense took too long to get going. While the 21 in the 21-0 start falls on the defense, the 0 falls on the offense and Ben's struggle to get the ball to receivers. Again, I'm not blaming Ben for the loss. But on a day when we needed him to be at his best, he wasn't.

Quote :
The D is just that bad. The talent is there, but the execution is severely lacking.

Yep. The coverage and tackling were horrible. And the schemes didn't help. This looked exactly like the defense we saw get shredded by the Jags in January. Something needs to change, and I think that something is defensive coordinator.

Quote :
Artie Burns isn't heading towards a bust, but he is trending downward week by week.

I wouldn't say he's a bust, but he's way too inconsistent.

Quote :
Little to no pass rush again.

The pass rush was strong last week because the secondary was covering well. Most of the sacks last week were coverage sacks. This game, the combination of poor secondary play and Mahomes getting rid of the ball quickly neutralized our pass rush.

Quote :
Until the D can sure up the secondary, expect to see teams run wide formations on them, and pass everywhere on there.

Yep.

Quote :
Again, angles, tackling, and simple coverage were awful. Lots of breakdowns in coverage as well.

Yep.

Quote :
Heavy criticism of Jordan Berry and the STs.

The defense is getting all the attention, but special teams were just as bad. There was one good punt. Everything else was a total failure. I'm probably wrong, but it seemed like we got a penalty on every punt and kick return.

Quote :
AB and Flichner were in a very heated argument on the sidelines. Someone came over and had to come in to break them up.

I thought getting rid of Haley would be the end of the sideline drama. Apparently not. Something is going on with AB. I don't know what it is, but something is wrong ... either physically or mentally. Or both. or its Ben

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:52 am

a little early for the Steelers to be playing for a top 10 draft pick.


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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:50 am

@effyou515 wrote:
a little early for the Steelers to be playing for a top 10 draft pick.


How about next week. Is that too soon?
Last year we complained that we didn't know which team would show up. So far this year we know.
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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:52 am

https://www.steelers.com/news/labriola-on-the-loss-to-the-chiefs
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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:44 am

Mike Prisuta, of WDVE, had a interesting perspective during the morning show sports report. He put the failures of the game on Ben and the Offense. He felt the slow start and the 3 and out where Ben missed a wide open Switzer doomed the game.

Paraphrasing from him, we knew the Defense was going to be garbage. The Defense hasn't looked right since Shazier went down. The thought was: Shazier masked a lot of deficiencies of the Defense. What did we do when Shazier went down? Drafted Edmunds and signed Bostic: both lackluster moves. In this case, the offense has to carry the load completely.

Also, it is starting to feel the local media may be starting to turn on the coaching staff.
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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:59 am

Completely unrelated, on the radio broadcast of yesterday's game (I think), they were talking about Chiefs Guard Laurent Duvernay-Tardif. He graduated from McGill Medical School and is a physician.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/chiefs-guard-graduates-from-med-school-thats-dr-laurent-duvernay-tardif-to-you-sir/
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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:22 pm

Ugh!


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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:40 pm

Yay more drama

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:56 pm

@solardave wrote:
What's up with the number changes? Davis was wearing #21 and Hilton was wearing #28. It was hard to tell who was screwing up the most. Burns was easy because he is still #25 and you could see him on most plays just outside the coverage zone. I don't know if anyone in the secondary was in place all game. Dupree had 2 penalties for neutral zone infraction. They put McCullers in and he drives their LG back into Mahomes to cause the only sack of the game for us and then we never see him again.
We looked like a (missed) tackle machine out there.

On offense we didn't wake up until the second quarter, then went back to sleep. The only constant in this game was the anxiety of having to watch it.

I can't think of one player who deserves a game ball except James. Ju Ju even dropped one or two balls. AB couldn't get open and except for the short TD flip Washington was overthrown all day. Although Ben made some plays he also missed on every long pass and had some poor throws in the shorter ones.

I said they are bi-polar but I'm starting to think they're schizophrenic. They're killing us fans. Burns, Davis, and Burnett look like backups. Hilton who has played pretty good when he's in looked terrible.

STs looked real special. Not in a good way. More like short bus special. Berry had one good punt and honestly he got lucky with the bounce. The safety was probably the defense' best play all game.

With the exception of McCullers bull rush no one else seemed interested in taking Mahomes down. I can see us going into Tampa bay and shittin' all over ourselves right now.
We've reached a point where there is no evidence that anything is going to change with this team.


Agreed 100%
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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:34 pm

@Wallace108 wrote:
Ugh!


Well, here we go again

Quote :
I can't think of one player who deserves a game ball except James. Ju Ju even dropped one or two balls. AB couldn't get open and except for the short TD flip Washington was overthrown all day. Although Ben made some plays he also missed on every long pass and had some poor throws in the shorter ones.

Jesse James continues to impress me. For all talk about getting McDonald on the field James seems to catch everything thrown his way. YAC not so great but always seems a solid receiver.

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PostSubject: Re: Steelers vs. Chiefs (Week 2)   Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:11 pm

I made a post at the beginning of training camp, and I thought there was a good chance I'd be revisiting it at some point this season. I didn't expect it to be after Week 2.

@Wallace108 wrote:
NFL Network reported that the team is coming in with a much more serious attitude compared with last year. Supposedly, "more disciplined." That's until AB arrives in a helicopter.

This team has lots of problems, and I think the root cause of most of them is the lack of discipline. I don't think I need to justify that statement ... I'm fairly certain most of us recognize it.

Not only do WE recognize it, but the team obviously recognizes it since players addressed it at the beginning of camp. They can say there's going to be more discipline, but that doesn't make it true. As soon as I heard AB was arriving at camp in a helicopter, it told me everything I needed to know ... and that is the mentality of this team hasn't changed one bit. The Jacksonville playoff loss should have been a wake-up call, but it wasn't. This is the same exact team we saw in January. They've got the talent to turn things around and make a playoff run, but this is not a championship team. To use a cliche, they don't have the heart of a champion. And that's because they lack discipline. You can't do the same things over and over and expect different results. From AB arriving to camp in a helicopter to certain starters getting little to no work in preaseason, this team hasn't showed the hunger and discipline it takes to be a champion.

And with any undisciplined team, once things start getting bad, there's a snowball effect. We're seeing that right now. We're going to find out how good of a coach Tomlin is. Will he be able to get this team back on track, or will we witness a total collapse? We're going to find out soon enough.

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