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nine vegetable



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PostSubject: Pound. The. Rock.   Pound.  The.  Rock. EmptyTue Dec 11, 2018 2:08 pm

Quite simply, whether its Samuels or Conner, either of them can get it done.

Here's an interesting question that I wish I knew the answer to but I can guess: What is our success rate running the football when Nix is blocking ahead of the runner? My guess? Really high success rate. Why aren't we doing that?

Despite all the talk of it being a passing league, for our Steelers, we are NOT going to win consistently without running the ball. And NO back (including LB when he was here) has been successful when the blocking isn't there. Simple scheme, get Nix in front of our ball carrier, run the ball, wear out the other team and grind them down, dominate the clock - and we win games.

Do nothing but pass the ball? We lose.

Simple.
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LambertWardSteel



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PostSubject: Re: Pound. The. Rock.   Pound.  The.  Rock. EmptyTue Dec 11, 2018 2:20 pm

It would certainly be a good if they had the lead and ran the ball all day to keep Pats* offense off the field. It does seem like the games this year when the D was at its best that they had big games for Conner and Steelers controlled time of possession. That was Cowher's strategy early on, run the ball and keep his D and the other team's offense off the field.

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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Pound. The. Rock.   Pound.  The.  Rock. EmptyTue Dec 11, 2018 2:23 pm

@nine vegetable wrote:
Quite simply, whether its Samuels or Conner, either of them can get it done.  

Here's an interesting question that I wish I knew the answer to but I can guess:  What is our success rate running the football when Nix is blocking ahead of the runner?  My guess?  Really high success rate.  Why aren't we doing that?

Despite all the talk of it being a passing league, for our Steelers, we are NOT going to win consistently without running the ball.  And NO back (including LB when he was here) has been successful when the blocking isn't there.   Simple scheme, get Nix in front of our ball carrier, run the ball, wear out the other team and grind them down, dominate the clock - and we win games.

Do nothing but pass the ball?  We lose.

Simple.

Absolutely. We don't use Nix nearly enough. You said dominate the clock. Yes and I'll add it keeps Brady/Gronkowski off of the field.I'm sure that's what you meant. The Patriots* are 15th against the run. My guess is because teams are trailing so they're throwing, because they didn't establish the run to begin with. If I'm right they might not be #15 but lower.
Regardless we have to run and use Nix. Hell change it up in short yardage by handing it to Nix. We've done that on short and goal at least a couple times that I remember and it worked.
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nine vegetable



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PostSubject: Re: Pound. The. Rock.   Pound.  The.  Rock. EmptyTue Dec 11, 2018 3:26 pm

@solardave wrote:
@nine vegetable wrote:
Quite simply, whether its Samuels or Conner, either of them can get it done.  

Here's an interesting question that I wish I knew the answer to but I can guess:  What is our success rate running the football when Nix is blocking ahead of the runner?  My guess?  Really high success rate.  Why aren't we doing that?

Despite all the talk of it being a passing league, for our Steelers, we are NOT going to win consistently without running the ball.  And NO back (including LB when he was here) has been successful when the blocking isn't there.   Simple scheme, get Nix in front of our ball carrier, run the ball, wear out the other team and grind them down, dominate the clock - and we win games.

Do nothing but pass the ball?  We lose.

Simple.

Absolutely. We don't use Nix nearly enough. You said dominate the clock. Yes and I'll add it keeps Brady/Gronkowski off of the field.I'm sure that's what you meant. The Patriots** are 15th against the run. My guess is because teams are trailing so they're throwing, because they didn't establish the run to begin with. If I'm right they might not  be #15 but lower.
Regardless we have to run and use Nix. Hell change it up in short yardage by handing it to Nix. We've done that on short and goal at least a couple times that I remember and it worked.

Too many teams want to change their scheme completely based on the opponent - instead of saying, "we're going to run right at you no matter how good you are." Teams look at the opponent too much instead of looking inside themselves and doing what they are good at. Steelers pass the ball too much. Great line, great fullback, good running backs and we don't start run the ball?
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Pound. The. Rock.   Pound.  The.  Rock. EmptyWed Dec 12, 2018 7:17 am

We have thrown 560 times and run 282 times. Real close to twice as much. Why?

Does Tomlin forget that if you have a good RB the more he runs the more he gets into a rhythm. We use more clock keeping our defense and their offense off of the field. If we keep their O off the field they shouldn't be able to score, unless Ben throws an INT. Logic circles back around to run the ball to set up the pass.

I know every fan wants to see their team march right down the field or throw the bomb and score. What they want after that is for their defense to stop their opponent. Personally I want to see scoring but not 100 points per game that leaves me in a fetal position with 20 seconds left in the game and we need a score to win. I'm to old for that shit. Just run the ball. I don't care if it's RB by committee. One member of said committee should be Rosey Nix. It also helps when you go play action because now you have 2 extra blockers.
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nine vegetable



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PostSubject: Re: Pound. The. Rock.   Pound.  The.  Rock. EmptyWed Dec 12, 2018 10:34 pm

Right on Solardave. Now would be a great time since the rest of the league has gotten away from it.

Me personally, I love a good running game. The best drive you can possible have is a long, perhaps 8 minute drive where you run the ball almost every down, grind the clock and end up in the end zone.

And again, I'll re-iterate: Putting Nix in front of the runner, and occasionally a TE (but especially Nix, he's a great blocker), means you will probably have a successful play almost every time. The line handles the linemen, and Nix cleans up the LB, giving your running back a one on one with a DB, beat one of them and get a long run, beat none of them and still gain probably 5-6 yards.
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nine vegetable



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PostSubject: Re: Pound. The. Rock.   Pound.  The.  Rock. EmptyWed Dec 12, 2018 10:36 pm

Finally one more thing: If your QB throws the ball 60 times and throws 2 INT's - you probably lose the game. Percentage-wise, you are much less likely to have a fumble carrying the ball the same number of times. Meaning, fewer turnovers which is a deciding factor in a majority of games.

Put another way - your HOF QB makes 2 mistakes a game and you likely lose. Your RB makes two mistakes (turns the wrong way) - you probably win.
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IowaSteeler927

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PostSubject: Re: Pound. The. Rock.   Pound.  The.  Rock. EmptyThu Dec 13, 2018 1:44 am

I concur we have to get the running game going. We can't get away from it like we have a tendency to do. The defense needs breaks, and keeping Brady off the field is always a good thing.

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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: Pound. The. Rock.   Pound.  The.  Rock. EmptyThu Dec 13, 2018 9:20 am

@nine vegetable wrote:
Right on Solardave.   Now would be a great time since the rest of the league has gotten away from it.

Me personally, I love a good running game.  The best drive you can possible have is a long, perhaps 8 minute drive where you run the ball almost every down, grind the clock and end up in the end zone.

And again, I'll re-iterate:  Putting Nix in front of the runner, and occasionally a TE (but especially Nix, he's a great blocker), means you will probably have a successful play almost every time.  The line handles the linemen, and Nix cleans up the LB, giving your running back a one on one with a DB, beat one of them and get a long run, beat none of them and still gain probably 5-6 yards.

I fully agree with getting the running game going, but I disagree with lining up behind a FB and running. The rest of the league got away from it because it doesn't work anymore. A lot of teams don't even have FBs anymore.

Good article here about the FB position from earlier this year. https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/3/2/17067792/fullbacks-dimitri-flowers-nick-bawden-donnie-ernsberger-draft-2018. The article lays out how the FB position is changing.

I am still not 100% sold on Conner as a feature back. He has had some great games, but others he has put the football on the carpet and that contributed to losses. Conner has shown me that he can be a spell / backup RB.

I don't like it, but spread offense / RPO is the new NFL. What we do need is what we needed for years now: a reliable 3rd WR for Ben. Washington was supposed to be it, but has not emerged as the person. McDonald isn't fully reliable as a receiving TE, and has injury problems. Switzer may be that guy, but I haven't seen enough of him in the Offense to know.
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Wallace108

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PostSubject: Re: Pound. The. Rock.   Pound.  The.  Rock. EmptyThu Dec 13, 2018 10:41 am

@jak341 wrote:
I fully agree with getting the running game going, but I disagree with lining up behind a FB and running. The rest of the league got away from it because it doesn't work anymore. A lot of teams don't even have FBs anymore.

And I think that's what is wrong with this team. At the root of most of its problems, in my opinion, is the fact that this team lost its identity.

For most of my life, the Steelers were known for playing defense and having a run-first mentality. Other teams were constantly trying to be like the Steelers. But the NFL has become a passing league, and now the Steelers are trying to be like other teams. In doing so, they've lost their identity. They've lost what made them the Steelers.

Here's my question ... why does the Steelers offense have to look like all the other offenses? Obviously, the defense needs to adapt to what other teams' offenses are doing, but I don't understand why our offense has to be dictated by what other offenses do. In fact, it seems like a good idea to be different, as defenses are built to stop a pass-happy offense.

If the Steelers want to get back to looking like the Steelers, they have to remember what it was that made them the Steelers. They need to be themselves rather than trying to be like other teams. The Steelers lost their identity awhile ago, and we've witnessed the results.

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nine vegetable



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PostSubject: Re: Pound. The. Rock.   Pound.  The.  Rock. EmptyThu Dec 13, 2018 10:57 am

@Wallace108 wrote:
@jak341 wrote:
I fully agree with getting the running game going, but I disagree with lining up behind a FB and running. The rest of the league got away from it because it doesn't work anymore. A lot of teams don't even have FBs anymore.

And I think that's what is wrong with this team. At the root of most of its problems, in my opinion, is the fact that this team lost its idenity.

For most of my life, the Steelers were known for playing defense and having a run-first mentality. Other teams were constantly trying to be like the Steelers. But the NFL has become a passing league, and now the Steelers are trying to be like other teams. In doing so, they've lost their idenity. They've lost what made them the Steelers.

Here's my question ... why does the Steelers offense have to look like all the other offenses? Obviously, the defense needs to adapt to what other teams' offenses are doing, but I don't understand why our offense has to be dictated by what other offenses do. In fact, it seems like a good idea to be different, as defenses are built to stop a pass-happy offense.

If the Steelers want to get back to looking like the Steelers, they have to remember what it was that made them the Steelers. They need to be themselves rather than trying to be like other teams. The Steelers lost their idenity awhile ago, and we've witnessed the results.

Wallace you are dead on.

I will go back to my fullback statement because the eye test don't lie. Most of the time I see a good running play, Nix is leading the way. Them's the facts no matter how much the rest of the league changes.
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Pound. The. Rock.   Pound.  The.  Rock. EmptyThu Dec 13, 2018 12:45 pm

What happened with the FB is they converted them to TE and started throwing them the ball. Let's face it a FB has to have a certain mentality. No guts no glory. I'm saying the teams that don't use a FB are the ones who don't have a guy like Nix. They're not cultivated in college any more.
Ben doesn't have to call a run just because Nix is in but I tell you this if he calls run enough play action or RPO will work. Just because they're not doing it anymore doesn't mean it won't work for us.
I still say the best way to stop a high powered offense is to keep them off of the field and the best way to do that is use clock by running.
Coming out with your first 10 or so scripted plays being all pass doesn't make sense. Some of the best run defenses in the league get the ball run up their asses several times a year. How do you know you can't run if you don't even try?

It's like Tomlin/Fichtner saying we know we can't run on you so we're gonna throw. Yeah you're right,we're one dimensional.If you start with AB and then take JU JU out you'll have a fun day.Don't worry about our Defense. They're paid well to let you go right on by.

What was it John McKay said years ago after a loss...."we couldn't run or pass but we made up for it by not tackling"!
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