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 Is Artie getting a fair shake?

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SteelerFreak58

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PostSubject: Is Artie getting a fair shake?   Is Artie getting a fair shake? EmptyWed Dec 19, 2018 7:45 pm

We have all pretty much given up on Artie Burns but I am wondering if he has been utilized to the best of his abilities....

He is a self professed man coverage/press guy and when he was used to his best abilities it was at those points 1v1 Mano e Mano. Even Haden has come to his defense saying he should be allowed to play his style of play in a few articles I have read. He has never been comfortable with zone coverages and yet when he has blown assignments earlier In the season it was in mostly zone. Even against the Patriots* Tomlin had told him specifically you will go out there and play man coverage unless I tell you otherwise. Well Tomlin told everyone to switch to zone during that blown.coverage except no one told Artie then he got yanked and never went back in.

I really would like to see him just be allowed to play his style of game. He was a lock down corner two years ago he has the skill set. I am not much of a zone fan anymore simply because good QBs have ate us for breakfast when our D tries to utilize it. It looks like more and more good defenses are using man press coverage and Artie can do that pretty well. I just don’t think he is getting a chance to play his game as intended.
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nine vegetable



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PostSubject: Re: Is Artie getting a fair shake?   Is Artie getting a fair shake? EmptyThu Dec 20, 2018 1:06 am

The team told everybody but Artie? Really?
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IowaSteeler927

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PostSubject: Re: Is Artie getting a fair shake?   Is Artie getting a fair shake? EmptyThu Dec 20, 2018 2:59 am

Artie isn't the same Artie we saw from his rookie year, he's progressively gotten worse in his Sophomore and Junior seasons. I know he's more of a man coverage guy, but he should still be able to play zone, you can't be 100% one way or the other. He's a 1st Round Pick, they didn't draft him to be a one trick pony.

The mental mistakes he's making on the field are beyond bad. Every time he's been on the field this season he's been killing us. Quarterbacks go after him intentionally because they know he's a liability.

I think they've given him too many chances to be quite honest, and every time that they have he's squandered them away. He's living in his head now, it's a psychological thing. I like the kid, but I don't think he's going to be turning it around with us. I wonder if a fresh start somewhere else might be helpful for him.

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Is Artie getting a fair shake? PaKS9WC
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." - Jack Lambert
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Stella Nation

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PostSubject: Re: Is Artie getting a fair shake?   Is Artie getting a fair shake? EmptyThu Dec 20, 2018 3:05 am

@nine vegetable wrote:
The team told everybody but Artie?  Really?

Tomlin admitted there was a communication breakdown during that play and it wasn't Burns' fault. The reason he put Sensabaugh in was because the communication would improve and somebody needed to be replaced of course. Logically the victim was Burns and not Haden.
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Stella Nation

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PostSubject: Re: Is Artie getting a fair shake?   Is Artie getting a fair shake? EmptyThu Dec 20, 2018 3:10 am

Btw I agree with the OP. Burns is terrible in zone coverage but he should be better in man/press coverage and I personally like them to see play man/press coverage more.
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IowaSteeler927

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PostSubject: Re: Is Artie getting a fair shake?   Is Artie getting a fair shake? EmptyThu Dec 20, 2018 3:12 am

@Stella Nation wrote:
Btw I agree with the OP. Burns is terrible in zone coverage but he should be better in man/press coverage and I personally like them to see play man/press coverage more.

This I agree with. Too much zone, too many times receivers are just running free because the DBs are playing too soft, and too far off from the receivers.

We are definitely going to need some Man coverage against the Saints. If we back off in zone we're going to need a stellar pass rush or Michael Thomas and guys like Alvin Kamara are going to burn us in the passing game.

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Is Artie getting a fair shake? PaKS9WC
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." - Jack Lambert
RIP to the late great B.B. King the Mayor of Bluesville
RIP Tyler Sash #9. Greatest Hawkeye Safety to ever don the black & gold.
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Lokki
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Lokki

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PostSubject: Re: Is Artie getting a fair shake?   Is Artie getting a fair shake? EmptyThu Dec 20, 2018 6:29 am

@IowaSteeler927 wrote:

We are definitely going to need some Man coverage against the Saints. If we back off in zone we're going to need a stellar pass rush or Michael Thomas and guys like Alvin Kamara are going to burn us in the passing game.

One bit of good news for us, 2 of the Saints OLinemen are out for the game and possibly a 3rd one, according to one of my Saints fan coworkers. They have a pretty good starting OLine. It's going to be tough to contain all of their weapons though.
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IowaSteeler927

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PostSubject: Re: Is Artie getting a fair shake?   Is Artie getting a fair shake? EmptyThu Dec 20, 2018 7:44 am

@Lokki wrote:
@IowaSteeler927 wrote:

We are definitely going to need some Man coverage against the Saints. If we back off in zone we're going to need a stellar pass rush or Michael Thomas and guys like Alvin Kamara are going to burn us in the passing game.

One bit of good news for us, 2 of the Saints OLinemen are out for the game and possibly a 3rd one, according to one of my Saints fan coworkers.  They have a pretty good starting OLine.  It's going to be tough to contain all of their weapons though.  

Yeah we definitely need to exploit that weakness. TJ, Bud, Cam and the rest of the guys need to bring their pass rushing A game. Going to have to collapse the pocket on Brees and harass him like we did Brady or we're going to have a long day. We also need to bottle up their running game. If we let Kamara or Ingram get a head of steam it's going to give Brees options in the passing game. This is going to be a tough test, tougher than the Patriots** IMO. If I'm Butler I'd be scheming all kinds of different kinds of stunts with the defensive line and be bringing pass rushers from all different areas of the field to confuse the o-line as much as possible. That should be a goal of his with some of their backups playing.

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Is Artie getting a fair shake? PaKS9WC
"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." - Jack Lambert
RIP to the late great B.B. King the Mayor of Bluesville
RIP Tyler Sash #9. Greatest Hawkeye Safety to ever don the black & gold.
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Is Artie getting a fair shake?   Is Artie getting a fair shake? EmptyThu Dec 20, 2018 9:33 am

About Burns. IMO you don't pick a player #1 over all to figure out what style he can play. At the #1 position he better be special and I think we reached for a second round CB. Hindsight,right?

Carolina held N.O. to 12 points. Game film will show what we need to do and I agree if you don't give Brees time to throw and don't let them run all over us we can win.

As far as the offense Ben needs to be accurate and choose his targets wisely. A balance of run/pass would be great. I know N.O. is far better than N.E. at stopping the run but I think our line is up to the task and as we saw Samuels is a pretty good duel threat.
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SteelerFreak58

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PostSubject: Re: Is Artie getting a fair shake?   Is Artie getting a fair shake? EmptyThu Dec 20, 2018 10:00 am

I do believe Tomlin reached on Burns. However everyone and their mother knew Burns was a man press coverage guy coming out of college with little zone knowledge. I guess it’s a matter of opinion but I believe you maximize a players strengths and Butlers scheme when using Burns was never really utilizing his strengths.

If we knew he had never played zone much in high-school and college and then we schemed him to play zone 70% of the time and he failed is it really his fault? Or is it possibly the coaching both at the DB level, DC level, and head coaching level?
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Is Artie getting a fair shake?   Is Artie getting a fair shake? EmptyThu Dec 20, 2018 10:14 am

@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
I do believe Tomlin reached on Burns. However everyone and their mother knew Burns was a man press coverage guy coming out of college with little zone knowledge. I guess it’s a matter of opinion but I believe you maximize a players strengths and Butlers scheme when using Burns was never really utilizing his strengths.

If we knew he had never played zone much in high-school and college and then we schemed him to play zone 70% of the time and he failed is it really his fault? Or is it possibly the coaching both at the DB level, DC level, and head coaching level?

All of the above but mostly the people who scouted him and picked him knowing he had weaknesses. Like picking a QB who is the best deep ball throwing QB in the draft but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn on any other throw. Do you pick him #1 knowing you will be throwing screens and crossing routes 70% of the time?

It's not Burns' fault we picked him.That being said he's here now and has to play better.Nature of the game. Best man up. What if we had to scheme to the other 10 players on defense? We don't because we have T.J. and Vince covering WRs knowing at the very least VW is too slow. Still they're expected to do the job.
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Stella Nation

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PostSubject: Re: Is Artie getting a fair shake?   Is Artie getting a fair shake? EmptyFri Dec 21, 2018 4:23 am

@solardave wrote:
@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
I do believe Tomlin reached on Burns. However everyone and their mother knew Burns was a man press coverage guy coming out of college with little zone knowledge. I guess it’s a matter of opinion but I believe you maximize a players strengths and Butlers scheme when using Burns was never really utilizing his strengths.

If we knew he had never played zone much in high-school and college and then we schemed him to play zone 70% of the time and he failed is it really his fault? Or is it possibly the coaching both at the DB level, DC level, and head coaching level?

All of the above but mostly the people who scouted him and picked him knowing he had weaknesses. Like picking a QB who is the best deep ball throwing QB in the draft but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn on any other throw. Do you pick him #1 knowing you will be throwing screens and crossing routes 70% of the time?

It's not Burns' fault we picked him.That being said he's here now and has to play better.Nature of the game. Best man up. What if we had to scheme to the other 10 players on defense? We don't because we have T.J. and Vince covering WRs knowing at the very least VW is too slow. Still they're expected to do the job.

The Bengals fucked us picking WJIII right in front of us. I believe he was going to be their pick. Then they reached for Burns, knowing his weaknesses in zone coverage but thinking he was the answer when playing the Patriots** where they could use his man press coverage. I strongly believe they thought he could be the difference in those match-ups and they desperately needed to find something to finally beat them.
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stlrtruck

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PostSubject: Re: Is Artie getting a fair shake?   Is Artie getting a fair shake? EmptyFri Dec 21, 2018 7:55 am

We need to get after Brees the way we got after Marcia.
We need to put a stop gap on their run game.

As for Artie, maybe it's time to see if he can actually cover man to man and let him take on whoever lines up on his side. Occassionally switch it up, try to confuse the Saints offense, but let Artie do what he's suppose to be good at doing.

Artie seems to have speed too, so why not let him come off the corner?

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effyou515



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PostSubject: Re: Is Artie getting a fair shake?   Is Artie getting a fair shake? EmptyFri Dec 21, 2018 2:09 pm

would sign him to another contract.

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Master_Of_Puppets



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PostSubject: Re: Is Artie getting a fair shake?   Is Artie getting a fair shake? EmptyFri Dec 21, 2018 11:05 pm

@Stella Nation wrote:
@solardave wrote:
@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
I do believe Tomlin reached on Burns. However everyone and their mother knew Burns was a man press coverage guy coming out of college with little zone knowledge. I guess it’s a matter of opinion but I believe you maximize a players strengths and Butlers scheme when using Burns was never really utilizing his strengths.

If we knew he had never played zone much in high-school and college and then we schemed him to play zone 70% of the time and he failed is it really his fault? Or is it possibly the coaching both at the DB level, DC level, and head coaching level?

All of the above but mostly the people who scouted him and picked him knowing he had weaknesses. Like picking a QB who is the best deep ball throwing QB in the draft but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn on any other throw. Do you pick him #1 knowing you will be throwing screens and crossing routes 70% of the time?

It's not Burns' fault we picked him.That being said he's here now and has to play better.Nature of the game. Best man up. What if we had to scheme to the other 10 players on defense? We don't because we have T.J. and Vince covering WRs knowing at the very least VW is too slow. Still they're expected to do the job.

The Bengals fucked us picking WJIII right in front of us. I believe he was going to be their pick. Then they reached for Burns, knowing his weaknesses in zone coverage but thinking he was the answer when playing the Patriots*** where they could use his man press coverage. I strongly believe they thought he could be the difference in those match-ups and they desperately needed to find something to finally beat them.

whaaaa ..? reached ? colbert and tomlin will tell you they don't reach. he was the man on their board and they were happy to get him.. Is Artie getting a fair shake? 1797695198
the ONLY reason burns was a first round pick was because the steelers made it so. the same for terrel edmunds. they were both WTF picks that only the steelers would make. as if they knew something other teams didn't ... Is Artie getting a fair shake? 798776511
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IowaSteeler927

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PostSubject: Re: Is Artie getting a fair shake?   Is Artie getting a fair shake? EmptySat Dec 22, 2018 2:05 am

@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
I do believe Tomlin reached on Burns. However everyone and their mother knew Burns was a man press coverage guy coming out of college with little zone knowledge. I guess it’s a matter of opinion but I believe you maximize a players strengths and Butlers scheme when using Burns was never really utilizing his strengths.

If we knew he had never played zone much in high-school and college and then we schemed him to play zone 70% of the time and he failed is it really his fault? Or is it possibly the coaching both at the DB level, DC level, and head coaching level?

Problem with being a one trick pony like that and then fielding him to play man-only? It makes the defense predictable. The opposing offense is going to know exactly what kind of coverage they're going to get when Burns is on the field. That's why we're better off simply playing Sensabaugh instead of Burns.

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"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." - Jack Lambert
RIP to the late great B.B. King the Mayor of Bluesville
RIP Tyler Sash #9. Greatest Hawkeye Safety to ever don the black & gold.
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SteelerFreak58

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PostSubject: Re: Is Artie getting a fair shake?   Is Artie getting a fair shake? EmptySat Dec 22, 2018 12:43 pm

Cody May have something to do owith it... good analysis first part of the article...

https://triblive.com/sports/steelers/14434804-74/four-downs-did-coty-senabaugh-earn-steelers-starting-gig-moreso-than-artie?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+tribunereviewsteelers+%28Steelers+Stories%29
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