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solardave

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PostSubject: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptyThu Jan 31, 2019 4:37 pm


Around the NFL




James Harrison pins blame for drama on Mike Tomlin





Print

By Nick Shook
Around The NFL Writer
Published: Jan. 31, 2019 at 03:29 p.m.
Updated: Jan. 31, 2019 at 03:44 p.m.

Plenty of people have weighed in on the Antonio Brown-Steelers drama, but we might have received our best perspective Thursday.

Former Steelers linebacker James Harrison -- who rose from undrafted free agent to star contributor for Pittsburgh before he was unceremoniously released in the middle of the 2017 season -- joined NFL Network's Super Bowl Live on Thursday to discuss a variety of topics, including Brown and the Steelers. It sure sounds like the Brown-Steelers marriage is all but over, and per Harrison, coach Mike Tomlin is deserving of most of the blame.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001014985/article/james-harrison-pins-blame-for-drama-on-mike-tomlin
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muncher



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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptyThu Jan 31, 2019 5:24 pm

this just in...water is wet
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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptyThu Jan 31, 2019 6:03 pm

Can't disagree.

Hines Ward also said the Steelers are the new Bengals.
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effyou515



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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptyThu Jan 31, 2019 6:13 pm

I'm rooting for Mason and Dobbs this off season I'm been done with Big Ben.

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Guess this wasn't a playoff team after all.
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muncher



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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptyFri Feb 01, 2019 12:05 am

bus basically says he ashamed of what this team has turned into
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nine vegetable



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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptyFri Feb 01, 2019 12:46 am

@effyou515 wrote:
I'm rooting for Mason and Dobbs this off season I'm been done with Big Ben.

I'm with you.
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muncher



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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptyFri Feb 01, 2019 12:53 am

@effyou515 wrote:
I'm rooting for Mason and Dobbs this off season I'm been done with Big Ben.

either of those guys with tomlin as HC,...................OMG
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptyFri Feb 01, 2019 5:01 am

@muncher wrote:
this just in...water is wet

Yeah and Tomlin is still HC. That being said this team needs to find a reason to play with him as their coach. If he won't bring discipline then we need leaders in the locker room who will.
Maybe Cam,TJ and Joe step up this year. Conner and JUJU could be leaders on offense.
We're stuck with him for one more year at least.
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stlrtruck

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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptyFri Feb 01, 2019 8:02 am

I read the Hines Ward statement this morning and I agree with what he said, "The standard is the standard."

I like Tomlin, but when you've lost the locker room the way he has, something has to change. I don't think it's going to be his way of doing things so eventually ownership will have to change who coaches this team.

Maybe that will be 2020, but I doubt it.

With a threatened work stoppage there's a good chance not much is going to change in the immediate future. Barring a terrible season where we enter the top 10 in the draft, I anticipate Tomlin being here at least through 2020. A work stoppage may certainly give the Steelers what they need to make changes throughout the organization.

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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptyFri Feb 01, 2019 8:27 am

I don't dislike Tomlin. We've been a good team under him but we all know we have the talent to be great. Here's what we haven't had under him. Discipline. Accountability. Leadership by example. These are IMO attributes crucial to winning in this league.

Like Bell a cheat or not (of course I choose not) his players know they better tow the line or be gone. Ask Malcolm Butler.
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SteelerFreak58

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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptyFri Feb 01, 2019 10:11 am

Tomlin is a good coach not a great one. When Cowhers vets left the organization he didn’t step in and fill the leadership void. Maybe he thought BB and Heyward would do it like the Cowher vets did but Ben didn’t and now we see the effects. Heyward can only do so much and his focus should be things on the D side of the ball, Ben should have had this offense in lock step but it hasn’t happened. There is a lot of blame to go around and it starts with Tomlin and filters down to people that should have stepped up and led through example and what they had seen from Cowhers vets. That OBVIOUSLY didn’t happen OBVIOUSLY!
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muncher



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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptyFri Feb 01, 2019 1:09 pm

this is going to be a train wreck until tomlin is gone
1) he continues to allow player to do whatever they want
2) he decides to be a tough guy and holds players accountable and then team doesnt accept his new attitude because they were use to a free for all.

either way, the players dont/wont have any respect for him.
seriously, how many of us would show respect to our boss that has acted a certain way for a decade then all of a sudden comes in and fakes being another way?
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muncher



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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptyFri Feb 01, 2019 1:10 pm

BTW, this only proves my point that tomlin won with cowhers players................hell, cowhers players are saying it.....lol
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nine vegetable



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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptyFri Feb 01, 2019 8:41 pm

The minute he stepped out of the building they were no longer his players.

The whole "winning with someone else's players" is a weak argument.
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muncher



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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptyFri Feb 01, 2019 9:55 pm

@nine vegetable wrote:
The minute he stepped out of the building they were no longer his players.

The whole "winning with someone else's players" is a weak argument.


it isnt weak, its the truth.
tomlin was able to inspire cowhers guys that lost their edge after winning the super bowl and going thru a 8-8 year where cowhers head wasnt in it. i give him credit for that but since then, tomlins post season success has gone down hill. more and more of cowhers players leaving and tomlins players being brought in have bben a failure in the post season.
it is quite apparent that a new HC with a new rah rah could be enough to take the talent the steelers have had the past 3-4 year and win.
tomlins lip service is falling on deaf ears.
saying those were tomlins players is the same as saying barry switzer won in dallas with his players............


when a couple gets divorced and remarry, do the kids all of a sudden belong to the new spouse?
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptySat Feb 02, 2019 6:13 am

[quote="muncher"]
@nine vegetable wrote:
The minute he stepped out of the building they were no longer his players.

The whole "winning with someone else's players" is a weak argument.


it isnt weak, its the truth.
tomlin was able to inspire cowhers guys that lost their edge after winning the super bowl and going thru a 8-8 year where cowhers head wasnt in it. i give him credit for that but since then, tomlins post season success has gone down hill. more and more of cowhers players leaving and tomlins players being brought in have bben a failure in the post season.
it is quite apparent that a new HC with a new rah rah could be enough to take the talent the steelers have had the past 3-4 year and win.
tomlins lip service is falling on deaf ears.
saying those were tomlins players is the same as saying barry switzer won in dallas with his players............


when a couple gets divorced and remarry, do the kids all of a sudden belong to the new spouse?[
/quote]

While I get what you're saying comparing coaching to marriage is not a good comparison. I agree Tomlin won more early on than he has since so your point about having Cowher's draft picks is relevant and he has not done extremely well in the draft since.

You have been vocal about your desire to see Tomlin gone but I can't recall reading a thing about who you think his replacement should be.
You've also said on more than one occasion that you'd be OK with the team failing if it meant Tomlin was fired. I don't get it. I would not shed a tear if Tomlin was fired but at what cost? Being a fan I want to see this team win. Win it all. Saying I'd take a disastrous season just to be rid of Tomlin doesn't make sense to me. It just seems to me that your hatred for Tomlin makes you seem like you're not even a fan. 2 sayings come to mind.
1) "careful what you wish for"
2) "let's not throw the baby out with the bath water"
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muncher



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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptySat Feb 02, 2019 10:09 am

@solardave wrote:
@muncher wrote:
@nine vegetable wrote:
The minute he stepped out of the building they were no longer his players.

The whole "winning with someone else's players" is a weak argument.


it isnt weak, its the truth.
tomlin was able to inspire cowhers guys that lost their edge after winning the super bowl and going thru a 8-8 year where cowhers head wasnt in it. i give him credit for that but since then, tomlins post season success has gone down hill. more and more of cowhers players leaving and tomlins players being brought in have bben a failure in the post season.
it is quite apparent that a new HC with a new rah rah could be enough to take the talent the steelers have had the past 3-4 year and win.
tomlins lip service is falling on deaf ears.
saying those were tomlins players is the same as saying barry switzer won in dallas with his players............


when a couple gets divorced and remarry, do the kids all of a sudden belong to the new spouse?[
/quote]

While I get what you're saying comparing coaching to marriage is not a good comparison. I agree Tomlin won more early on than he has since so your point about having Cowher's draft picks is relevant and he has not done extremely well in the draft since.

You have been vocal about your desire to see Tomlin gone but I can't recall reading a thing about who you think his replacement should be.
You've also said on more than one occasion that you'd be OK with the team failing if it meant Tomlin was fired. I don't get it. I would not shed a tear if Tomlin was fired but at what cost? Being a fan I want to see this team win. Win it all. Saying I'd take a disastrous season just to be rid of Tomlin doesn't make sense to me. It just seems to me that your hatred for Tomlin makes you seem like you're not even a fan. 2 sayings come to mind.
1) "careful what you wish for"
2) "let's not throw the baby out with the bath water"

i have to laugh with the 'who would be better' excuse for keeping tomlin.'
nobody knew who cowher was
nobody knew whop tomlin was
if certain fans say that you need to trust the FO for drafting players and signing FA, them you have to say the same thing when it comes to finding the next HC
im not scared of change and i dont think this team would skip a beat if they changed head coaches every 4-5 years. i actually think coaches get complacent and their talk gets old.
this organization has won 6 super bowls, but has only won 2 in the last 40 years. there are numerous teams that have equaled or surpassed that. those teams didnt need to have only 3 coaches in 50 years to do it.
im not discounting the first 4 super bowls but those were different times. our infatuation with 'stability' probably has hurt us the last decade more than helped us.
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptySat Feb 02, 2019 11:18 am

@muncher wrote:
@solardave wrote:
@muncher wrote:
@nine vegetable wrote:
The minute he stepped out of the building they were no longer his players.

The whole "winning with someone else's players" is a weak argument.


it isnt weak, its the truth.
tomlin was able to inspire cowhers guys that lost their edge after winning the super bowl and going thru a 8-8 year where cowhers head wasnt in it. i give him credit for that but since then, tomlins post season success has gone down hill. more and more of cowhers players leaving and tomlins players being brought in have bben a failure in the post season.
it is quite apparent that a new HC with a new rah rah could be enough to take the talent the steelers have had the past 3-4 year and win.
tomlins lip service is falling on deaf ears.
saying those were tomlins players is the same as saying barry switzer won in dallas with his players............


when a couple gets divorced and remarry, do the kids all of a sudden belong to the new spouse?[
/quote]

While I get what you're saying comparing coaching to marriage is not a good comparison. I agree Tomlin won more early on than he has since so your point about having Cowher's draft picks is relevant and he has not done extremely well in the draft since.

You have been vocal about your desire to see Tomlin gone but I can't recall reading a thing about who you think his replacement should be.
You've also said on more than one occasion that you'd be OK with the team failing if it meant Tomlin was fired. I don't get it. I would not shed a tear if Tomlin was fired but at what cost? Being a fan I want to see this team win. Win it all. Saying I'd take a disastrous season just to be rid of Tomlin doesn't make sense to me. It just seems to me that your hatred for Tomlin makes you seem like you're not even a fan. 2 sayings come to mind.
1) "careful what you wish for"
2) "let's not throw the baby out with the bath water"

i have to laugh with the 'who would be better'  excuse for keeping tomlin.'


I think it is a legitimate question. You can laugh.How does me asking you who would be better become an excuse to keep Tomlin? All I'm saying is firing Tomlin is only half of the solution.I'd like to know what your thoughts are for a new coach. Or is anyone better than Tomlin in your eyes at this point?

nobody knew who cowher was
nobody knew whop tomlin was
if certain fans say that you need to trust the FO for drafting players and signing FA, them you have to say the same thing when it comes to finding the next HC
im not scared of change and i dont think this team would skip a beat if they changed head coaches every 4-5 years. i actually think coaches get complacent and their talk gets old.
this organization has won 6 super bowls, but has only won 2 in the last 40 years. there are numerous teams that have equaled or surpassed that. those teams didnt need to have only 3 coaches in 50 years to do it.
im not discounting the first 4 super bowls but those were different times. our infatuation with 'stability' probably has hurt us the last decade more than helped us.

I'm not arguing the point. I think Tomlin reached his ceiling. But I threw some names out there when I said I think he needs to go. Based on what I've seen the last several years I don't trust the FO at all. I don't trust Art II at all. Who says a new coach has to come from the unknown? If anything I think the fact that after the season we had and Tomlin is still here I believe he probably thinks this job is his until he doesn't want it anymore. If I'm right you will get your wish. This team will suck next year,and the year after that until people quit going to games.
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nine vegetable



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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptySat Feb 02, 2019 4:33 pm

Anybody hoping for a bad season so the coach gets fired isn't a fan. We pull for our team every year even if we don't always like/agree with the personnel around.

To the person who disagrees with my assessment of 'someone else's players' - if you stand by that, then if the Rams win the Super Bowl this year, will McVey have done it with 'someone else's' quarterback? After all, Goff was there before McVey.

Getting back to the Cowher thing. Cowher won 1 super bowl. Went 8-8. Tomlin took that same team the next year and won a Super Bowl. With Cowher's players?

And for those who haven't been fans long enough to remember....fans wanted Cowher gone back in the day, too. 15 years, 1 super bowl win, 3 losing seasons.

Tomlin: people want him gone. 12 years, 1 super bowl win, 0 losing seasons.

I am certainly disappointed with recent results and want a tighter ship - but unless some, I support my coach and my team.
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptySat Feb 02, 2019 4:52 pm

The bottom line for me is I don't think we'll get any better unless Tomlin puts his foot down and he hasn't done it yet. I'm still going to watch every Steeler game on in my area and I may be on here right after if we loose calling for Tomlin's head. The point is I still want to see this team win because like an addiction I am a rabid fan. I said once if the Steelers folded up and moved, changing their name that would be the day I quit watching the NFL.
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muncher



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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptySun Feb 03, 2019 11:45 am

@nine vegetable wrote:
Anybody hoping for a bad season so the coach gets fired isn't a fan.  We pull for our team every year even if we don't always like/agree with the personnel around.

To the person who disagrees with my assessment of 'someone else's players' - if you stand by that, then if the Rams win the Super Bowl this year, will McVey have done it with 'someone else's' quarterback?  After all, Goff was there before McVey.

Getting back to the Cowher thing.  Cowher won 1 super bowl.  Went 8-8.  Tomlin took that same team the next year and won a Super Bowl.  With Cowher's players?

And for those who haven't been fans long enough to remember....fans wanted Cowher gone back in the day, too.  15 years, 1 super bowl win, 3 losing seasons.

Tomlin:  people want him gone.  12 years, 1 super bowl win, 0 losing seasons.

I am certainly disappointed with recent results and want a tighter ship - but unless some, I support my coach and my team.

ok, how did tomlin do the following year with supposedly his players?
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptySun Feb 03, 2019 1:32 pm

@muncher wrote:
@nine vegetable wrote:
Anybody hoping for a bad season so the coach gets fired isn't a fan.  We pull for our team every year even if we don't always like/agree with the personnel around.

To the person who disagrees with my assessment of 'someone else's players' - if you stand by that, then if the Rams win the Super Bowl this year, will McVey have done it with 'someone else's' quarterback?  After all, Goff was there before McVey.

Getting back to the Cowher thing.  Cowher won 1 super bowl.  Went 8-8.  Tomlin took that same team the next year and won a Super Bowl.  With Cowher's players?

And for those who haven't been fans long enough to remember....fans wanted Cowher gone back in the day, too.  15 years, 1 super bowl win, 3 losing seasons.

Tomlin:  people want him gone.  12 years, 1 super bowl win, 0 losing seasons.

I am certainly disappointed with recent results and want a tighter ship - but unless some, I support my coach and my team.

ok, how did tomlin do the following year with supposedly his players?

What difference does it make who's supposed players they are? Coaches are judged (at least by their bosses) by how they coach the current team. Regardless of who drafted them.
I've never heard an owner say that a coach won with someone else's players. Fans or non-fans are the only people who use this analogy. The fact is that all the arguing in the world is not going to change who our coach is for 2019 and since this is the team I've been a fan of all my life I'll roll with whoever the HC is. Like it or not.

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nine vegetable



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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptySun Feb 03, 2019 2:03 pm

@solardave wrote:
@muncher wrote:
@nine vegetable wrote:
Anybody hoping for a bad season so the coach gets fired isn't a fan.  We pull for our team every year even if we don't always like/agree with the personnel around.

To the person who disagrees with my assessment of 'someone else's players' - if you stand by that, then if the Rams win the Super Bowl this year, will McVey have done it with 'someone else's' quarterback?  After all, Goff was there before McVey.

Getting back to the Cowher thing.  Cowher won 1 super bowl.  Went 8-8.  Tomlin took that same team the next year and won a Super Bowl.  With Cowher's players?

And for those who haven't been fans long enough to remember....fans wanted Cowher gone back in the day, too.  15 years, 1 super bowl win, 3 losing seasons.

Tomlin:  people want him gone.  12 years, 1 super bowl win, 0 losing seasons.

I am certainly disappointed with recent results and want a tighter ship - but unless some, I support my coach and my team.

ok, how did tomlin do the following year with supposedly his players?

What difference does it make who's supposed players they are? Coaches are judged (at least by their bosses) by how they coach the current team. Regardless of who drafted them.
I've never heard an owner say that a coach won with someone else's players. Fans or non-fans are the only people who use this analogy. The fact is that all the arguing in the world is not going to change who our coach is for 2019 and since  this is the  team I've been a fan of all my life I'll roll with whoever the HC is. Like it or not.


Right on, Solar. As I said before, and I stand by it - the whole concept of a coach's players is weak. Most organizations make personnel decisions as a team anyway. Very few teams turn the whole thing over to the coach (there are a few but not many).

I'm supporting my team and rooting for us to win every game. I hope we win the Super Bowl next year and Tomlin is here another 5 years as a result.
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muncher



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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptySun Feb 03, 2019 4:23 pm

okay, how has your HC done in the playoffs with players HE scouted, drafted and coached up compared to the players that were scouted, drafted and coached up by cowher?

im rooting for this HC to continue to fail so this organization can move on and i can be proud to call myself a steelers fan again. the last few years have be embarrassing
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin   Harrison says the blame starts with Tomlin EmptyTue Feb 05, 2019 8:55 am

@muncher wrote:
okay, how has your HC done in the playoffs with players HE scouted, drafted and coached up compared to the players that were scouted, drafted and coached up by cowher?

im rooting for this HC to continue to fail so this organization can move on and i can be proud to call myself a steelers fan again. the last few years have be embarrassing

It's simple. If your a fan only when we have "your coach" you are not a true fan. Fair weather is the term used.
If you are serious about rooting for the Steelers to loose then maybe you need to look for another team. One that has a HC you like.
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