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Master_Of_Puppets



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PostSubject: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyThu Apr 04, 2019 12:17 am

the steelers always prided themselves with keeping teams for rushing under 100 yds and making them one dimensional. casey hampton , AKA "big snack" was a HUGE part of that. since the departure of hampton , teams have found a lot of success running against the former steel curtain. hampton required double teams which let the inside linebackers have a free shot at the running lanes.

so would it be worth it in todays pass happy NFL to take an early flyer to put a mountain in the middle of the front 7 ?
i say yes, and that guy is dexter lawrence from clemson.



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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyThu Apr 04, 2019 4:55 am

In today's NFL the object on Defense is to disrupt the passer. I agree stopping the run will always be important but with teams doing much more passing then running how much would a guy like Lawrence really be used in our defense? Even if he drew double teams at least one of our ILBs will be out in coverage so how effective would he be?
I still think ILB,OLB,CB are our needs and BPA will be a priority.
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SteelerFreak58

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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyThu Apr 04, 2019 12:59 pm

We need some pressure from the outside Watt is one bookend but we dont have the other. Dupree is a bust. We need a versatile ILB to replace Shazier as well.

Shazier getting injured and the two back to back busts at OLB wwith Jarvis Jones and Dupree set our Defense back immensely, not to mention the bust that is Artie Burns. That many misses have hurt us in so many ways its hard to put it in words.
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Master_Of_Puppets



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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyThu Apr 04, 2019 3:00 pm

@solardave wrote:
In today's NFL the object on Defense is to disrupt the passer. I agree stopping the run will always be important but with teams doing much more passing then running how much would a guy like Lawrence really be used in our defense? Even if he drew double teams at least one of our ILBs will be out in coverage so how effective would he be?
I still think ILB,OLB,CB are our needs and BPA will be a priority.

in 2017 the steelers went 13-3. they lost to chicago in OT , but only gave up 84 passing yds...so how did they lose you ask...they gave up 222 freaking rushing yds !!! so that blew a 14-2 record and top seed in the playoffs.

same year 2017 two weeks later..they lost to jacksonville.  the jags had a whopping 82 yds passing. so how did they lose to that ? well...they gave up 231 RUSHING YARDS !!!. AGAIN a 14-2 record and top seed in the playoffs and a chance at playing tennessee at home was lost to the Pats** and instead they faced the jags again. so what happened?....

they lost to the jags in the playoffs.they gave up 14 completions to the jags for 214 yards and 1 passing td.  so how did they lose you ask again ...well they gave up 164 yds and 4 tds on the ground !!!

now lets go to 2018 with a 9-6-1 record where they missed the playoffs by half a game...half a game ? yep the tie with the browns first game of the year...
browns had 150 net yds passing. they gave up 7 sacks to the steelers. one passing td. so how did they stay in the game you ask ? well there was the 177 RUSHING YARDS and the two rushing tds the steel curtain let them have.

lets skip to the last game of the season against the bungholes. this wasn't a lose , but easily could have been. the steelers faced the bungholes with a backup qb named joe driskel...who ?
easy pickins for a seasoned steelers team right ? wrong. besides a piss poor effort from the steelers Offense with Ben gifting them a pick 6. the passing D played well enough by only giving up 12 completions for a net of 71 yards after 4 sacks.
so why was the game so close you ask ? they gave up 125 yds on 18 carries is why.

they also had a 24-17 losing effort to the broncos in 2018 while giving up only 184 yds passing , but gave up 124 rushing yds , despite Ben throwing for 452 yds.

the Dline certainly isn't their biggest need. but if they can't get value on an ILB, and i agree Dud Dupree needs replaced, BUT the steelers did lead the league in sacks last year with 52 , even with Dupree.
they also just picked up their new starter opposite hadden at corner, so taking one with a first would be more for depth and likely he would play the slot in a nickel package.
so why not try to plug a hole in the run game ? a guy to rotate with hargrave who is a true run stopper. this guy reminds me of vince wilfork.
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solardave

solardave

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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyThu Apr 04, 2019 3:15 pm

@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
@solardave wrote:
In today's NFL the object on Defense is to disrupt the passer. I agree stopping the run will always be important but with teams doing much more passing then running how much would a guy like Lawrence really be used in our defense? Even if he drew double teams at least one of our ILBs will be out in coverage so how effective would he be?
I still think ILB,OLB,CB are our needs and BPA will be a priority.

in 2017 the steelers went 13-3. they lost to chicago in OT , but only gave up 84 passing yds...so how did they lose you ask...they gave up 222 freaking rushing yds !!! so that blew a 14-2 record and top seed in the playoffs.

same year 2017 two weeks later..they lost to jacksonville.  the jags had a whopping 82 yds passing. so how did they lose to that ? well...they gave up 231 RUSHING YARDS !!!. AGAIN a 14-2 record and top seed in the playoffs and a chance at playing tennessee at home was lost to the Pats*** and instead they faced the jags again. so what happened?....

they lost to the jags in the playoffs.they gave up 14 completions to the jags for 214 yards and 1 passing td.  so how did they lose you ask again ...well they gave up 164 yds and 4 tds on the ground !!!

now lets go to 2018 with a 9-6-1 record where they missed the playoffs by half a game...half a game ? yep the tie with the browns first game of the year...
browns had 150 net yds passing. they gave up 7 sacks to the steelers. one passing td. so how did they stay in the game you ask ? well there was the 177 RUSHING YARDS and the two rushing tds the steel curtain let them have.

lets skip to the last game of the season against the bungholes. this wasn't a lose , but easily could have been. the steelers faced the bungholes with a backup qb named joe driskel...who ?
easy pickins for a seasoned steelers team right ? wrong. besides a piss poor effort from the steelers Offense with Ben gifting them a pick 6. the passing D played well enough by only giving up 12 completions for a net of 71 yards after 4 sacks.
so why was the game so close you ask ? they gave up 125 yds on 18 carries is why.

they also had a 24-17 losing effort to the broncos in 2018 while giving up only 184 yds passing , but gave up 124 rushing yds , despite Ben throwing for 452 yds.

the Dline certainly isn't their biggest need. but if they can't get value on an ILB, and i agree Dud Dupree needs replaced, BUT the steelers did lead the league in sacks last year with 52 , even with Dupree.
they also just picked up their new starter opposite hadden at corner, so taking one with a first would be more for depth and likely he would play the slot in a nickel package.
so why not try to plug a hole in the run game ? a guy to rotate with hargrave who is a true run stopper. this guy reminds me of vince wilfork.

You have valid points. Every team should run the ball until they can't. With us they can.Our problem is not only do we not stop the run, we don't get turnovers.In the games you pointed out what was the turnover differential?We lost that battle all year because not only did we not stop the run but Ben threw a shitload of ints and we had guys dropping ints left and right. All I'm saying is picking a NT at #20 won't solve our run problems unless we have ILBers who are in position to fill the holes left by the double team. If we go back to LeBeau's D (which was no longer working) then we might stop the run but good QBs will throw the ball all over the yard on us. Go back and look at the 2 TDs McCaffrey had against us catching the ball out of the backfield.I'm just saying we have more problems than stopping the run. If I felt confident in Barron and Nelson I would probably agree with you. If they pick your guy at #20 I'll be the first to give you the nod. I don't think they will.
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Master_Of_Puppets



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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyThu Apr 04, 2019 4:03 pm

@solardave wrote:
@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
@solardave wrote:
In today's NFL the object on Defense is to disrupt the passer. I agree stopping the run will always be important but with teams doing much more passing then running how much would a guy like Lawrence really be used in our defense? Even if he drew double teams at least one of our ILBs will be out in coverage so how effective would he be?
I still think ILB,OLB,CB are our needs and BPA will be a priority.

in 2017 the steelers went 13-3. they lost to chicago in OT , but only gave up 84 passing yds...so how did they lose you ask...they gave up 222 freaking rushing yds !!! so that blew a 14-2 record and top seed in the playoffs.

same year 2017 two weeks later..they lost to jacksonville.  the jags had a whopping 82 yds passing. so how did they lose to that ? well...they gave up 231 RUSHING YARDS !!!. AGAIN a 14-2 record and top seed in the playoffs and a chance at playing tennessee at home was lost to the Pats***** and instead they faced the jags again. so what happened?....

they lost to the jags in the playoffs.they gave up 14 completions to the jags for 214 yards and 1 passing td.  so how did they lose you ask again ...well they gave up 164 yds and 4 tds on the ground !!!

now lets go to 2018 with a 9-6-1 record where they missed the playoffs by half a game...half a game ? yep the tie with the browns first game of the year...
browns had 150 net yds passing. they gave up 7 sacks to the steelers. one passing td. so how did they stay in the game you ask ? well there was the 177 RUSHING YARDS and the two rushing tds the steel curtain let them have.

lets skip to the last game of the season against the bungholes. this wasn't a lose , but easily could have been. the steelers faced the bungholes with a backup qb named joe driskel...who ?
easy pickins for a seasoned steelers team right ? wrong. besides a piss poor effort from the steelers Offense with Ben gifting them a pick 6. the passing D played well enough by only giving up 12 completions for a net of 71 yards after 4 sacks.
so why was the game so close you ask ? they gave up 125 yds on 18 carries is why.

they also had a 24-17 losing effort to the broncos in 2018 while giving up only 184 yds passing , but gave up 124 rushing yds , despite Ben throwing for 452 yds.

the Dline certainly isn't their biggest need. but if they can't get value on an ILB, and i agree Dud Dupree needs replaced, BUT the steelers did lead the league in sacks last year with 52 , even with Dupree.
they also just picked up their new starter opposite hadden at corner, so taking one with a first would be more for depth and likely he would play the slot in a nickel package.
so why not try to plug a hole in the run game ? a guy to rotate with hargrave who is a true run stopper. this guy reminds me of vince wilfork.

You have valid points. Every team should run the ball until they can't. With us they can.Our problem is not only do we not stop the run, we don't get turnovers.In the games you pointed out what was the turnover differential?We lost that battle all year because not only did we not stop the run but Ben threw a shitload of ints and we had guys dropping ints left and right. All I'm saying is picking a NT at #20 won't solve our run problems unless we have ILBers who are in position to fill the holes left by the double team. If we go back to LeBeau's D (which was no longer working) then we might stop the run but good QBs will throw the ball all over the yard on us. Go back and look at the 2 TDs McCaffrey had against us catching the ball out of the backfield.I'm just saying we have more problems than stopping  the run. If I felt confident in Barron and Nelson I would probably agree with you. If they pick your guy at #20 I'll be the first to give you the nod. I don't think they will.

well here's the thing. confidence or not, the steelers did give them contracts. they didn't get backup type of money. they still as of now have bostick on the roster , yet they gave barron even MORE money. that tells me they have him slotted to be the starter, and obviously Nelson will be starting alongside hadden. so where would a rookie factor in beside being a nickel back ? are they giving up on hilton already ? as for the outside lbers, i'm not sold on any of them. they all look like 50/50 gamble boom or bust candidates similiar to jones, worilds, and dupree.

when did dick lebeaus D seem to fall to pieces ? for me i believe it was when hampton, and aaron jones started having injuries and eventually called it quits 2010-2011 ish. now i think tuitt and heyward are as good as jones and keisel , but hargrave is NOT in the same league as hampton. those THREE up front guys make or break ILBers in a 3-4. a monster nose tackle is essential for the 3-4.
just like the offense, it all starts up front.

just for a fun fact. Hampton was the 19th pick in 2001.
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nine vegetable



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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyThu Apr 04, 2019 9:51 pm

MMBQ just put up a mock draft that had Steelers taking Greedy Williams at 20 - and the Ravens drafting Devin Bush 2 picks later.

If both were available at 20, who would you guys pick? (I'd vote for Bush myself).
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SteelerFreak58

SteelerFreak58

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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyThu Apr 04, 2019 10:35 pm

Bush if he is thete bit he wont be.
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyFri Apr 05, 2019 4:34 am

@nine vegetable wrote:
MMBQ just put up a mock draft that had Steelers taking Greedy Williams at 20 - and the Ravens drafting Devin Bush 2 picks later.

If both were available at 20, who would you guys pick?  (I'd vote for Bush myself).

Bush all day.
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solardave

solardave

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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyFri Apr 05, 2019 4:55 am

@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
@solardave wrote:
@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
@solardave wrote:
In today's NFL the object on Defense is to disrupt the passer. I agree stopping the run will always be important but with teams doing much more passing then running how much would a guy like Lawrence really be used in our defense? Even if he drew double teams at least one of our ILBs will be out in coverage so how effective would he be?
I still think ILB,OLB,CB are our needs and BPA will be a priority.

in 2017 the steelers went 13-3. they lost to chicago in OT , but only gave up 84 passing yds...so how did they lose you ask...they gave up 222 freaking rushing yds !!! so that blew a 14-2 record and top seed in the playoffs.

same year 2017 two weeks later..they lost to jacksonville.  the jags had a whopping 82 yds passing. so how did they lose to that ? well...they gave up 231 RUSHING YARDS !!!. AGAIN a 14-2 record and top seed in the playoffs and a chance at playing tennessee at home was lost to the Pats****** and instead they faced the jags again. so what happened?....

they lost to the jags in the playoffs.they gave up 14 completions to the jags for 214 yards and 1 passing td.  so how did they lose you ask again ...well they gave up 164 yds and 4 tds on the ground !!!

now lets go to 2018 with a 9-6-1 record where they missed the playoffs by half a game...half a game ? yep the tie with the browns first game of the year...
browns had 150 net yds passing. they gave up 7 sacks to the steelers. one passing td. so how did they stay in the game you ask ? well there was the 177 RUSHING YARDS and the two rushing tds the steel curtain let them have.

lets skip to the last game of the season against the bungholes. this wasn't a lose , but easily could have been. the steelers faced the bungholes with a backup qb named joe driskel...who ?
easy pickins for a seasoned steelers team right ? wrong. besides a piss poor effort from the steelers Offense with Ben gifting them a pick 6. the passing D played well enough by only giving up 12 completions for a net of 71 yards after 4 sacks.
so why was the game so close you ask ? they gave up 125 yds on 18 carries is why.

they also had a 24-17 losing effort to the broncos in 2018 while giving up only 184 yds passing , but gave up 124 rushing yds , despite Ben throwing for 452 yds.

the Dline certainly isn't their biggest need. but if they can't get value on an ILB, and i agree Dud Dupree needs replaced, BUT the steelers did lead the league in sacks last year with 52 , even with Dupree.
they also just picked up their new starter opposite hadden at corner, so taking one with a first would be more for depth and likely he would play the slot in a nickel package.
so why not try to plug a hole in the run game ? a guy to rotate with hargrave who is a true run stopper. this guy reminds me of vince wilfork.

You have valid points. Every team should run the ball until they can't. With us they can.Our problem is not only do we not stop the run, we don't get turnovers.In the games you pointed out what was the turnover differential?We lost that battle all year because not only did we not stop the run but Ben threw a shitload of ints and we had guys dropping ints left and right. All I'm saying is picking a NT at #20 won't solve our run problems unless we have ILBers who are in position to fill the holes left by the double team. If we go back to LeBeau's D (which was no longer working) then we might stop the run but good QBs will throw the ball all over the yard on us. Go back and look at the 2 TDs McCaffrey had against us catching the ball out of the backfield.I'm just saying we have more problems than stopping  the run. If I felt confident in Barron and Nelson I would probably agree with you. If they pick your guy at #20 I'll be the first to give you the nod. I don't think they will.

well here's the thing. confidence or not, the steelers did give them contracts. they didn't get backup type of money. they still as of now have bostick on the roster , yet they gave barron even MORE money. that tells me they have him slotted to be the starter, and obviously Nelson will be starting alongside hadden. so where would a rookie factor in beside being a nickel back ? are they giving up on hilton already ? as for the outside lbers, i'm not sold on any of them. they all look like 50/50 gamble boom or bust candidates similiar to jones, worilds, and dupree.

when did dick lebeaus D seem to fall to pieces ? for me i believe it was when hampton, and aaron jones started having injuries and eventually called it quits 2010-2011 ish. now i think tuitt and heyward are as good as jones and keisel , but hargrave is NOT in the same league as hampton. those THREE up front guys make or break ILBers in a 3-4. a monster nose tackle is essential for the 3-4.
just like the offense, it all starts up front.

just for a fun fact. Hampton was the 19th pick in 2001.

I agree Hargrave is not Hampton. You're right Nelson and Barron will start,I think. I wouldn't be upset at all if they took Lawrence at #20. In fact I'd be happy to say you were right. My take is I think Butler is still trying to figure out a defense that works. Some games he seems to be having a hard time finding his way out of the locker room at halftime. would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack 1797695198 I say whatever it takes to stop the run must be backed up by pressure on the QB while having a secondary that can turn the ball over,whether it's by interception,fumble or strip sack.
We have to maintain a + in the turnover category. Lawrence actually seems to shed blockers even better than "big snack" did and he has excellent moves for a big guy. Can you feel the shift? I now think you may be on to something here. They waste 2 blockers on him and he still gets to his guy. We haven't had a dominant guy in the middle since Hampton left. Hargrave flashes at times but this guy looks to kick down doors.
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nine vegetable



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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyFri Apr 05, 2019 11:35 am

You guys make a good point about Lawrence. He may be a great option at #20.
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muncher



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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyFri Apr 05, 2019 12:13 pm

how is he in coverage?
we could use him to cover other teams #1 wr
that would really fool em
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Master_Of_Puppets



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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyFri Apr 05, 2019 12:31 pm

@solardave wrote:
@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
@solardave wrote:
@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
@solardave wrote:
In today's NFL the object on Defense is to disrupt the passer. I agree stopping the run will always be important but with teams doing much more passing then running how much would a guy like Lawrence really be used in our defense? Even if he drew double teams at least one of our ILBs will be out in coverage so how effective would he be?
I still think ILB,OLB,CB are our needs and BPA will be a priority.

in 2017 the steelers went 13-3. they lost to chicago in OT , but only gave up 84 passing yds...so how did they lose you ask...they gave up 222 freaking rushing yds !!! so that blew a 14-2 record and top seed in the playoffs.

same year 2017 two weeks later..they lost to jacksonville.  the jags had a whopping 82 yds passing. so how did they lose to that ? well...they gave up 231 RUSHING YARDS !!!. AGAIN a 14-2 record and top seed in the playoffs and a chance at playing tennessee at home was lost to the Pats******* and instead they faced the jags again. so what happened?....

they lost to the jags in the playoffs.they gave up 14 completions to the jags for 214 yards and 1 passing td.  so how did they lose you ask again ...well they gave up 164 yds and 4 tds on the ground !!!

now lets go to 2018 with a 9-6-1 record where they missed the playoffs by half a game...half a game ? yep the tie with the browns first game of the year...
browns had 150 net yds passing. they gave up 7 sacks to the steelers. one passing td. so how did they stay in the game you ask ? well there was the 177 RUSHING YARDS and the two rushing tds the steel curtain let them have.

lets skip to the last game of the season against the bungholes. this wasn't a lose , but easily could have been. the steelers faced the bungholes with a backup qb named joe driskel...who ?
easy pickins for a seasoned steelers team right ? wrong. besides a piss poor effort from the steelers Offense with Ben gifting them a pick 6. the passing D played well enough by only giving up 12 completions for a net of 71 yards after 4 sacks.
so why was the game so close you ask ? they gave up 125 yds on 18 carries is why.

they also had a 24-17 losing effort to the broncos in 2018 while giving up only 184 yds passing , but gave up 124 rushing yds , despite Ben throwing for 452 yds.

the Dline certainly isn't their biggest need. but if they can't get value on an ILB, and i agree Dud Dupree needs replaced, BUT the steelers did lead the league in sacks last year with 52 , even with Dupree.
they also just picked up their new starter opposite hadden at corner, so taking one with a first would be more for depth and likely he would play the slot in a nickel package.
so why not try to plug a hole in the run game ? a guy to rotate with hargrave who is a true run stopper. this guy reminds me of vince wilfork.

You have valid points. Every team should run the ball until they can't. With us they can.Our problem is not only do we not stop the run, we don't get turnovers.In the games you pointed out what was the turnover differential?We lost that battle all year because not only did we not stop the run but Ben threw a shitload of ints and we had guys dropping ints left and right. All I'm saying is picking a NT at #20 won't solve our run problems unless we have ILBers who are in position to fill the holes left by the double team. If we go back to LeBeau's D (which was no longer working) then we might stop the run but good QBs will throw the ball all over the yard on us. Go back and look at the 2 TDs McCaffrey had against us catching the ball out of the backfield.I'm just saying we have more problems than stopping  the run. If I felt confident in Barron and Nelson I would probably agree with you. If they pick your guy at #20 I'll be the first to give you the nod. I don't think they will.

well here's the thing. confidence or not, the steelers did give them contracts. they didn't get backup type of money. they still as of now have bostick on the roster , yet they gave barron even MORE money. that tells me they have him slotted to be the starter, and obviously Nelson will be starting alongside hadden. so where would a rookie factor in beside being a nickel back ? are they giving up on hilton already ? as for the outside lbers, i'm not sold on any of them. they all look like 50/50 gamble boom or bust candidates similiar to jones, worilds, and dupree.

when did dick lebeaus D seem to fall to pieces ? for me i believe it was when hampton, and aaron jones started having injuries and eventually called it quits 2010-2011 ish. now i think tuitt and heyward are as good as jones and keisel , but hargrave is NOT in the same league as hampton. those THREE up front guys make or break ILBers in a 3-4. a monster nose tackle is essential for the 3-4.
just like the offense, it all starts up front.

just for a fun fact. Hampton was the 19th pick in 2001.

I agree Hargrave is not Hampton. You're right Nelson and Barron will start,I think. I wouldn't be upset at all if they took Lawrence at #20. In fact I'd be happy to say you were right. My take is I think Butler is still trying to figure out a defense that works. Some games he seems to be having a hard time finding his way out of the locker room at halftime. would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack 1797695198 I say whatever it takes to stop the run must be backed up by pressure on the QB while having a secondary that can turn the ball over,whether it's by interception,fumble or strip sack.
We have to maintain a + in the turnover category. Lawrence actually seems to shed blockers even better than "big snack" did and he has excellent moves for a big guy. Can you feel the shift? I now think you may be on to something here. They waste 2 blockers on him and he still gets to his guy. We haven't had a dominant guy in the middle  since Hampton left. Hargrave flashes at times but this guy looks to kick down doors.

don't get me wrong , i like hargrave. hell he had 6 sacks last year and seems to improve every season. he just doesn't consistently over power the guy in front of him and demand a double team. he is probably a better pass rusher than lawrence, making them a good rotation. lawrence is the huge massive presence in the middle that they refuse to acknowledge that McCullers will never be. at least if they draft him we would be rid of that waste of a roster spot.

had they not made the off season moves they made i wouldn't be suggesting that lawrence should be a consideration , but it just seems to me if they are still in the "win now" window with Ben, that they aren't thinking about the future and grooming rookies to take over.

the Barron deal looks to be set up for just a one year commitment, and they can cut him after that without too much of a cap hit.
also hadden could be in his last year with them , so who knows. my reasoning for lawrence is for an immediate contributor.

of course we can't rule out a WR or a TE (since McDonald can't stay healthy) ,who could also see playing time. i just think adding a defensive upgrade no matter the position, is the way to go in round one.
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Master_Of_Puppets



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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyFri Apr 05, 2019 12:33 pm

@muncher wrote:
how is he in coverage?
we could use him to cover other teams #1 wr
that would really fool em

well he did run a 4.99 or a 5.0 (i've seen both listed) which is pretty fast for a 340+ lb guy
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Master_Of_Puppets



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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyFri Apr 05, 2019 12:37 pm

@nine vegetable wrote:
You guys make a good point about Lawrence.  He may be a great option at #20.

well if you've got any connections at the steelers complex, please tell them to have colbert and tomlin check out this thread. the only time they have ever picked the guy i wanted was ....jarvis jones... would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack 190127080 ... would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack 1505004552
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyFri Apr 05, 2019 4:20 pm

@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
@muncher wrote:
how is he in coverage?
we could use him to cover other teams #1 wr
that would really fool em

well he did run a 4.99 or a 5.0 (i've seen both listed) which is pretty fast for a 340+ lb guy

Fast? That's freakin' scary! I also agree about McCaullers and wonder what they're thinking. It would be different if he played five snaps a game and got a sack every game but he's pretty much invisible except for his size. I could see Lawrence sharing time with Hargrave going in. But at the end of the day we will all probably shake our heads at our number one pick again. I hope not though.
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Master_Of_Puppets



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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyFri Apr 05, 2019 10:08 pm

@solardave wrote:
@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
@muncher wrote:
how is he in coverage?
we could use him to cover other teams #1 wr
that would really fool em

well he did run a 4.99 or a 5.0 (i've seen both listed) which is pretty fast for a 340+ lb guy

Fast? That's freakin' scary! I also agree about McCaullers and wonder what they're thinking. It would be different if he played five snaps a game and got a sack every game but he's pretty much invisible except for his size. I could see Lawrence sharing time with Hargrave going in. But at the end of the day we will all probably shake our heads at our number one pick again. I hope not though.

well there is going to be a lot of quality players available at 20. the CB and WR's are pretty deep this year. they could probably pick up either of those two positions in 2nd rd and get good value without reaching.
i also believe there will be either hockenson or fant at 20 if they desire a TE.
as i said about the OLB'ers, outside of Bosa and allen , i think all of them are boom or bust. but if i went with one of them it would probably be BUrns from florida state or winovich from michigan. Sweat, ferrell and polite seem risky to me. i felt the same way about worilds and dupree. didn't like those picks when they made them. but alas, in my shame i did want jarvis jones would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack 1505004552 ..so what do i know ? would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack 2087824411  watch the game film i said....combine numbers mean nothing i said...

with his speed an athleticism, lawrence could also play DE ... they could move him around the line the way the ratbirds did with Ngata.
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptySat Apr 06, 2019 5:49 am

OK. We've been talk about "Big Snack" and what he brought to the team on the field but here is a great story about him as a man.

https://www.steelers.com/news/hampton-humbled-to-be-honored-by-blount
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kirklandrules

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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptySat Apr 06, 2019 5:56 am

This is a great topic! Lawrence is a special player who could be impactful for the Steelers (or any team for that matter). And look what the Cheaters did last year ... ran the ball with power (Brady had 1 good pass in the SB).

However, the issues with the run game are not due to a lack of a stud NT. There are several reasons teams ran effectively against the Steelers and a guy like Lawrence wouldn't have changed that. Look at that Bear's game a few years ago when they ran for a crap-ton of yards. That loss was about the defense being out of position. With every defensive play call, there is gap responsibility and that did not exist in that game. I believe it was after that game that Heyward made the statement that players weren't doing their jobs. I agree. The holes weren't due to players getting moved, the holes were there because players who were responsible for that gap were elsewhere. I wanted to blame the ILBs, but not knowing the playcalling and the responsibility each player has makes it hard to know if a defensive lineman went the wrong way or the LBs were in the wrong spot.

For that Bear's game, I think they sh!t the bed against a bad team as they do quite often.

The 2 Jags games that year were similar. However, let's start with Ben throwing something like 6 picks and a fumble for a TD in those 2 games. Hard to beat a run heavy offense when your defense is on the field all day long. Also, I think Tuitt missed the first game.

As I look across the Steelers D-line, I really don't see a glaring issue with talent that a Lawrence would make a huge improvement on. Don't get me wrong, he's good, just thinking where you get the bang for your buck with a #20 pick. Right now the biggest concern the Steelers have on defense is at ILB. Bostic and Dirty Red are very good run stuffers. But they are liabilities in the passing game. Barron is supposed to be that guy who can do both. We'll see. I definitely think he's the best talent to play that hybrid LB that Shazier was becoming the gold standard in. That is why I liked Pratt. He's not the talent Barron was in college, but he's built like a brick sh!thouse and played ILB for 2 years in college (Barron convert to ILB just a few years ago while in the NFL). So he's a younger version of Barron who has a headstart (in his career) on that position. The Steelers should pick the best CB, WR, or TE at #20, then trade up in the 2nd and grab Pratt (I keep dreaming).

Finally (damn I'm long winded), I think the sum of why the Steelers struggled against the run was growing pains after having to rebuild that defense that dominated for 15 years. The talent was there at D-line, but the knowledge/experience was not. And they didn't have the talent at ILB once Shazier went down.
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptySat Apr 06, 2019 7:32 am

@kirklandrules wrote:
This is a great topic! Lawrence is a special player who could be impactful for the Steelers (or any team for that matter). And look what the Cheaters did last year ... ran the ball with power (Brady had 1 good pass in the SB).

However, the issues with the run game are not due to a lack of a stud NT. There are several reasons teams ran effectively against the Steelers and a guy like Lawrence wouldn't have changed that. Look at that Bear's game a few years ago when they ran for a crap-ton of yards. That loss was about the defense being out of position.  With every defensive play call, there is gap responsibility and that did not exist in that game. I believe it was after that game that Heyward made the statement that players weren't doing their jobs. I agree. The holes weren't due to players getting moved, the holes were there because players who were responsible for that gap were elsewhere.  I wanted to blame the ILBs, but not knowing the playcalling and the responsibility each player has makes it hard to know if a defensive lineman went the wrong way or the LBs were in the wrong spot.

For that Bear's game, I think they sh!t the bed against a bad team as they do quite often.

The 2 Jags games that year were similar.  However,  let's start with Ben  throwing something like 6 picks and a fumble for a TD in those 2 games. Hard to beat a run heavy offense when your defense is on the field all day long. Also, I think Tuitt missed the first game.

As I look across the Steelers D-line, I really don't see a glaring issue with talent that a Lawrence would make a huge improvement on.  Don't get me wrong,  he's good, just thinking where you get the bang for your buck with a #20 pick. Right now the biggest concern the Steelers have on defense is at ILB. Bostic and Dirty Red are very good run stuffers. But they are liabilities in the passing game. Barron is supposed to be that guy who can do both. We'll see.  I definitely think he's the best talent to play that hybrid LB that Shazier was becoming the gold standard in. That is why I liked Pratt. He's not the talent Barron was in college, but he's built like a brick sh!thouse and played ILB for 2 years in college (Barron convert to ILB just a few years ago while in the NFL). So he's a younger version of Barron who has a headstart (in his career) on that position. The Steelers should pick the best CB, WR, or TE at #20, then trade up in the 2nd and grab Pratt (I keep dreaming).

Finally (damn I'm long winded), I think the sum of why the Steelers struggled against the run was growing pains after having to rebuild that defense that dominated for 15 years. The talent was there at D-line, but the knowledge/experience was not.  And they didn't have the talent at ILB once Shazier went down.

KR as usual you summed it up really good. I would like to add that in addition to guys not maintaining their gaps no one seemed to want to tackle when they had the chance. how many games did we see 3,4, or even 5 missed tackles on the same play. would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack 2913999526 RBs did not only get to the second level, they've been taking it to the house from 50+ yards out. I think Lawrence could be a huge help if everyone else played with discipline and flowed to their gap. One of the only knocks on Shazier was his over pursuit but that  almost always took place in the backfield with at least one guy following to clean it up. We really haven't had that since he went down. I also see how a guy like Pratt could be an upgrade at MLB and I think it would be a lot easier moving up in round 2 to get him. I usually don't watch the draft but I might have to make an exception this year.
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Master_Of_Puppets



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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptySat Apr 06, 2019 9:40 pm

@solardave wrote:
OK. We've been talk about "Big Snack" and what he brought to the team on the field but here is a great story about him as a man.

https://www.steelers.com/news/hampton-humbled-to-be-honored-by-blount

THIS is what i have been saying....

Quote :
“Casey was special because if you didn’t double team him, or triple team him, he would take over the game. The ball would not get to the second level, which is to the linebackers. If you did that, that made the inside linebackers really good. Look at how many linebackers made the Pro Bowl and that will tell you what kind of player Casey was.”
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kirklandrules

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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyMon Apr 08, 2019 9:43 am

Yeah, Big Snack is an awesome guy. He was so much fun to watch. I'll never forget seeing him scrape down the line of scrimmage and knock Eddie George out cold with a thunderous ear-hole shot.

Unfortunately for Hamp, there were teams that cut him and made him less effective. I remember him bitching about it, but Tomlin made a comment about using technique to counter the cutting. The tough thing is that technique requires some nimbleness and a certain amount of speed and he was a little late in his career to pull it off.

The Steelers have transitioned away from the 2 gap big boys who hold up 2 O-linemen while the linebackers make the plays. Teams were making that less effective through cutting and with the passing game picking up, they found they could block that zone blitz more effectively.

Now the Steelers normally ask their D-line to cover 1 gap, which entails more than taking up space. Those D-linemen blow through those gaps trying to make plays in the backfield. Opponents suddenly have to worry about sacks coming from Heyward, Tuitt and Hargrave (6 last year) as well as from the LBs. Under the old 3-4, an offense would only try to figure out where one or more of the 4 LBs were coming from. More often, the Steelers were seeing multiple blockers on pass plays. TEs and RBs were pitching in and we heard the term "Max Protect". From O Tackle to O Tackle, the linemen would pinch in to prevent blitzing up the middle. TEs and RBs would chip the OLBs on the outside. QBs would sit back with plenty of time for the 3 receivers to find an open spot on their routes. Remember the frustration right before LeBeau left when sack totals went down and teams picked apart the defensive? The above is why.

Now Hargrave blows through his gap at the snap of the ball and the QB is sh!tting his pants right off the bat. How do you beat Tom Brady? Pressure in his face. They were preventing that pressure from the old 3-4 using extra blockers. This past season the Steelers beat the Cheaters because those 3 D-linemen were getting in Brady's face while the LBs dropped into coverage, shrinking the throwing windows. Now add the unexpected blitzes and O coordinators lay awake at night trying to figure out how to keep their QB safe.

McCullers is on the team strictly for goalline. You simply can't run his hole because you can't move him. But Hargrave is the guy who makes it happen in normal circumstances. I really like that guy and think he can be even better next season.
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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyTue Apr 09, 2019 1:33 am

I think Hargrave has been doing a fine job. IDL isn't really at the top of my list of needs for this team. I'd say ILB, WR, OLB, and TE are all ahead of IDL. Hell I'd probably say S, and IOL are ahead of IDL as well.

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would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack PaKS9WC
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyMon Apr 15, 2019 6:22 am

@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
I think Hargrave has been doing a fine job. IDL isn't really at the top of my list of needs for this team. I'd say ILB, WR, OLB, and TE are all ahead of IDL. Hell I'd probably say S, and IOL are ahead of IDL as well.

I agree about our needs but a guy like Lawrence would make big Dan the one trick pony expendable. would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack 2087824411 Since trading up in the first looks all but impossible maybe we do it in the second and snag a sliding 1rst rounder. All I know for sure is we can't afford any more Artie Burns types early on.
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nine vegetable



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PostSubject: Re: would / should the steelers go for a Big Snack   would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack EmptyMon Apr 15, 2019 2:54 pm

@solardave wrote:
@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
I think Hargrave has been doing a fine job. IDL isn't really at the top of my list of needs for this team. I'd say ILB, WR, OLB, and TE are all ahead of IDL. Hell I'd probably say S, and IOL are ahead of IDL as well.

I agree about our needs but a guy like Lawrence would make big Dan the one trick pony expendable. would / should  the steelers go for a Big Snack 2087824411 Since trading up in the first looks all but impossible maybe we do it in the second and snag a sliding 1rst rounder. All I know for sure is we can't afford any more Artie Burns types early on.
someone mocked Bryon Murphy to us in the first, know anything about him?
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