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nine vegetable



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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyThu Jan 16, 2020 7:28 pm

@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
I hate saying it but trade Juju for a 1 and draft 2 OL in the first 2 picks. Our OL was and will be the Achilles heel of the team if its not addressed.
I think that is an excellent idea.
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyMon Jan 20, 2020 8:00 am

@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
I hate saying it but trade Juju for a 1 and draft 2 OL in the first 2 picks. Our OL was and will be the Achilles heel of the team if its not addressed.

I don't think we could get a #1 for him this draft after the season he had as our #1 WR. 42 receptions for 552. We all know IFBen had not gotten hurt his numbers would have been much better but that's not how bargaining goes in the real world. I agree the Oline needs a lot of attention but saying it will be our Achilles is a little drastic I think. Did they really play that bad or did all teams just load up the box,pin their ears back and come after us knowing we could not throw the ball effectively.
Remember after the 2018 season we all thought we were in rebuilding mode on defense. I'm saying it's hard to predict any teams future performance based on the past. I hope we can make the necessary additions in this draft to improve on offense while at least maintaining the level we had on defense.
At this point we don't even know if Ben will come back and if he can at what level. I do think one focus has to be with Canada grooming our backup QB whoever that turns out to be to see if he can be a future starter for us.
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nine vegetable



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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyMon Jan 20, 2020 11:50 am

@solardave wrote:
@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
I hate saying it but trade Juju for a 1 and draft 2 OL in the first 2 picks. Our OL was and will be the Achilles heel of the team if its not addressed.

I don't think we could get a #1 for him this draft after the season he had as our #1 WR. 42 receptions for 552. We all know IFBen had not gotten hurt his numbers would have been much better but that's not how bargaining goes in the real world. I agree the Oline needs a lot of attention but saying it will be our Achilles is a little drastic I think. Did they really play that bad or did all teams just load up the box,pin their ears back and come after us knowing we could not throw the ball effectively.
Remember after the 2018 season we all thought we were in rebuilding mode on defense. I'm saying it's hard to predict any teams future performance based on the past. I hope we can make the necessary additions in this draft to improve on offense while at least maintaining the level we had on defense.
At this point we don't even know if Ben will come back and if he can at what level. I do think one focus has to be with Canada grooming our backup QB whoever that turns out to be to see if he can be a future starter for us.
Very good, valid points. I do agree with Steelerfreak that OL needs to be a point of emphasis. Look at what SF just did, rushing for over 200 yards with a guy who got cut by 6 teams. The line made that happen, he had wide open holes to run through.

With our dominant D, and a more robust O-line (we have some pieces in place but need a few more), we're not that far off from where they are. QB being a big Question mark of course. I still am not convinced that Ben plays again. In that case, Matt Canada's job will be extremely important - getting a QB ready (may well be someone not currently on the roster).

I don't know if trading Ju Ju gets us to round 1 or not - perhaps bundled with picks. But I'd certainly look to beef up the O line early. It would sure be nice to have a Kelce type at TE too (what a Beast that guy is). I mean of course, one that would stay healthy. McDonald is in that mold somewhat, but is never healthy.
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SteelerFreak58

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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyMon Jan 20, 2020 12:05 pm

I agree I am not sure we could get a #1 for him but if we could we should. I like Juju but like I said I believe our weakest area is the O-Line and it needs addressed quickly.
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solardave

solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyMon Jan 20, 2020 12:14 pm

@nine vegetable wrote:
@solardave wrote:
@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
I hate saying it but trade Juju for a 1 and draft 2 OL in the first 2 picks. Our OL was and will be the Achilles heel of the team if its not addressed.

I don't think we could get a #1 for him this draft after the season he had as our #1 WR. 42 receptions for 552. We all know IFBen had not gotten hurt his numbers would have been much better but that's not how bargaining goes in the real world. I agree the Oline needs a lot of attention but saying it will be our Achilles is a little drastic I think. Did they really play that bad or did all teams just load up the box,pin their ears back and come after us knowing we could not throw the ball effectively.
Remember after the 2018 season we all thought we were in rebuilding mode on defense. I'm saying it's hard to predict any teams future performance based on the past. I hope we can make the necessary additions in this draft to improve on offense while at least maintaining the level we had on defense.
At this point we don't even know if Ben will come back and if he can at what level. I do think one focus has to be with Canada grooming our backup QB whoever that turns out to be to see if he can be a future starter for us.
Very good, valid points.  I do agree with Steelerfreak that OL needs to be a point of emphasis.  Look at what SF just did, rushing for over 200 yards with a guy who got cut by 6 teams.  The line made that happen, he had wide open holes to run through.  

Yeah I agree Oline should be a priority but I also realize our injuries were not just to Ben but Connor and pretty much all our RB stable missed time. The line could have/should have played better for sure but I think the other factors made them look even worse. As much as I like AV he had a bad year and Foster is past his prime. Fieler has to improve next year too. I don't think Sarrett is what he was cracked up to be. Canada will play a role in developing our QBs and hopefully take part in game planning or just take Fitchner's job.

With our dominant D, and a more robust O-line (we have some pieces in place but need a few more), we're not that far off from where they are.  QB being a big Question mark of course.  I still am not convinced that Ben plays again.  In that case, Matt Canada's job will be extremely important - getting a QB ready (may well be someone not currently on the roster).  

I don't know if trading Ju Ju gets us to round 1 or not - perhaps bundled with picks.  But I'd certainly look to beef up the O line early.  It would sure be nice to have a Kelce type at TE too (what a Beast that guy is).  I mean of course, one that would stay healthy.  McDonald is in that mold somewhat, but is never healthy.
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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyWed Jan 22, 2020 11:01 am

Tim Benz with some potential targets, if we can clear cap space.

https://triblive.com/sports/tim-benz-lets-break-down-this-list-of-potential-steelers-free-agent-targets/
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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyWed Jan 22, 2020 11:09 am

Gerry Dulac, Tim Benz, and others are starting to question the Minkah trade.


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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyWed Jan 22, 2020 11:39 am

At first I thought bringing in Minkah was stupid. Turns out I was. Now I think he is worth what we gave up. Honestly I look for roster moves to create cap space and 1 possible trade for a 2nd round. We may get a 3rd compensatory for "losing" Bell. Let's hope. Colbert is a question mark while I see them signing him for at least one more year.

Tim Benz with some potential targets, if we can clear cap space.

https://triblive.com/sports/tim-benz-lets-break-down-this-list-of-potential-steelers-free-agent-targets/

Other than Bridewater no one on his list really makes any sense. IMO they are lateral moves at best. I even think Bridewater will be out of our price range. Here's to hoping Canada can work miracles with MR.
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nine vegetable



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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyThu Jan 23, 2020 12:12 am

I wish we could get Dobbs back.

He wasn't perfect but he'd have been an enormous improvement over either of the other two.

Those guys who are doubting the Fitzpatrick trade? They are dead wrong. Fitzpatrick immediately upgraded our D into a nasty and tough D. Great move. Sucks we don't have a #1 pick but he was still worth the trade. I'd still trade Ju Ju and see how far up we can get.

Here's a seldom mentioned factor: the WR corps saw a giant drop-off. made it really hard for the inexperienced QBs. Wonder how much of the problem had to do with the death of Drake, WR coach? His loss might have been the biggest overlooked story of the season.

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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyThu Jan 23, 2020 7:58 am

Local media is turning on JuJu. Especially with the lack of comment made by the front office regarding a JuJu contract extension, and the Interwebz rumors (if true) that JuJu wants to be paid like a top 5 WR.

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nine vegetable



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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyThu Jan 23, 2020 11:04 am

@jak341 wrote:
Local media is turning on JuJu. Especially with the lack of comment made by the front office regarding a JuJu contract extension, and the Interwebz rumors (if true) that JuJu wants to be paid like a top 5 WR.

They're finally coming around to my way of thinking Where does it go from here? - Page 7 1372836603
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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyThu Jan 23, 2020 11:36 am

I don't disagree. If JuJu and our 2nd gets us into the first where we can fill a position of need, do it.
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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyThu Jan 23, 2020 11:45 am

This is kind of out of the blue: Cam Heyward wants to start talking extensions.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/23/cam-heyward-more-than-happy-to-facilitate-extension-talks/
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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyFri Jan 24, 2020 11:25 am

BTSC has some thoughts on Bud.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2020/1/24/21078721/bud-dupree-considered-one-of-the-biggest-risks-as-free-agency-approaches-pittsburgh-steelers-nfl
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyFri Jan 24, 2020 1:09 pm

This is the tell right here.

Rule number one of NFL free agency: never trust the sack totals. Dupree had double the amount of sacks in 2019 than he has had in any of his previous four seasons in the NFL. He made more impactful plays, but generated pressure on a per-play basis that failed to crack the 50th percentile.

Dupree had a poor pressure rate and was still average in winning rep-to-rep with just a 13.1% pass-rush win rate, ranking tied for 50th. With the handful of big impact plays, Dupree had a career year in 2019, producing a 76.3 pass-rush grade that was 24th at his position. His previous high in his first four seasons sat at just 61.0. That’s not good, folks. Dupree was good in 2019, but the historic play from him is too poor to pay for. Not to mention, sacks are more descriptive than predictive. Never trust the box score.
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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyFri Jan 24, 2020 1:44 pm

I'm leaning towards giving Bud a very team friendly deal. If he doesn't want it, he can go test the market. Someone out there will overpay. We know this.

The issue becomes, who replaces him? Ola? Chick? Skipper? A 2nd round draft pick? If a 2nd, that means 3 of the 4 last OLBs didn't make a second contract (I'm assuming T.J. gets a second contract) and 4 of 5 severely under produced (going back to Worldlis).

Not a good track record for a team that prides itself on LBs and outside pressure.
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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyTue Jan 28, 2020 9:33 pm

Jerome Bettis sounds off on many topics.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/super-bowl-2020-jerome-bettis-weighs-in-on-the-future-of-derrick-henry-james-conner-and-leveon-bell/
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Master_Of_Puppets



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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyWed Jan 29, 2020 5:19 pm

my thoughts and opinions on the last 2 topics

1. Im not convinced Dupree has really turned in to a solid OLB

2 nobody is going to give up a 1st for JUJU after the year he just had. he was exposed for benefiting playing opposite of a great receiver. of course he didnt have consistent qb play , but a great receiver still manages to get yards even with lesser qb's. guys like calvin johnson , AJ green , even hines ward before Ben

also if minkah was a steeler first round pick nobody would be questioning if he was "worth it". he performed the way people expect a first round pick to perform. so whats is there to debate ?
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nine vegetable



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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyThu Jan 30, 2020 1:30 am

@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
my thoughts and opinions on the last 2 topics

1. Im not convinced Dupree has really turned in to a solid OLB

2 nobody is going to give up a 1st for JUJU after the year he just had. he was exposed for benefiting playing opposite of a great receiver. of course he didnt have consistent qb play , but a great receiver still manages to get yards even with lesser qb's. guys like calvin johnson , AJ green , even hines ward before Ben

also if minkah was a steeler first round pick nobody would be questioning if he was "worth it". he performed the way people expect a first round pick to perform. so whats is there to debate ?
Minkah was a great pick-up - well worth it in my opinion. Its like having a can't-miss 1st rounder.

As for Ju Ju, you are right - nobody is giving up a 1st for him. I think the hope is that he, bundled in a package, with a 2nd, maybe more, could get us into the 1st round. He has some worth - just how much worth, has yet to be determined. But he could help us move up - certainly not a one for one trade there.
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyThu Jan 30, 2020 4:06 am

@nine vegetable wrote:
@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
my thoughts and opinions on the last 2 topics

1. Im not convinced Dupree has really turned in to a solid OLB

2 nobody is going to give up a 1st for JUJU after the year he just had. he was exposed for benefiting playing opposite of a great receiver. of course he didnt have consistent qb play , but a great receiver still manages to get yards even with lesser qb's. guys like calvin johnson , AJ green , even hines ward before Ben

also if minkah was a steeler first round pick nobody would be questioning if he was "worth it". he performed the way people expect a first round pick to perform. so whats is there to debate ?
Minkah was a great pick-up - well worth it in my opinion.  Its like having a can't-miss 1st rounder.

As for Ju Ju, you are right - nobody is giving up a 1st for him.  I think the hope is that he, bundled in a package, with a 2nd, maybe more, could get us into the 1st round.  He has some worth - just how much worth, has yet to be determined.  But he could help us move up - certainly not a one for one trade there.

I agree about Dupree and I said it as well that we won't get a 1st round pick for Ju Ju. Trading him and giving up our #2 to me is robbing Peter to pay Paul. I think we have our #1 WR in camp. Either Washington or Johnson. If I'm right Ju Ju is still the best option at #2 for us. I'm not against some other option to get back into the 1st round. I just think losing Ju Ju will hurt us. I've been wrong my fair share of the time but I think the FO should look at other options. If you put any stock in mock drafts the ones I'm seeing have the best OL prospects going early in the 1st. We won't get there no matter what we do.
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Stella Nation

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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyThu Jan 30, 2020 5:52 am

Giving up on a young player after one bad season is something the Browns would do, not the Steelers. In fact, now is the time to offer Juju a new contract. He's heading into his last year and after last season, maybe he won't cost that much.

There are a couple of reasons why Juju had a bad season:
1. Ben got injured. Remember how bad AB was when Ben couldn't play? In fact, Juju's numbers without Ben are better than AB's numbers without Ben.
2. Juju himself was injured since the first Browns game.
3. The loss of coach Drake really hit Juju. The time it takes to get over such a sudden loss varies from people to people.
4. Juju is still a kid. Despite his experience he's the youngest of our WR's and one of the youngest of the team in general.

Another plus for Juju is that Mark Madden doesn't like him Where does it go from here? - Page 7 1797695198
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyFri Jan 31, 2020 8:22 am

@Stella Nation wrote:
Giving up on a young player after one bad season is something the Browns would do, not the Steelers. In fact, now is the time to offer Juju a new contract. He's heading into his last year and after last season, maybe he won't cost that much.

There are a couple of reasons why Juju had a bad season:
1. Ben got injured. Remember how bad AB was when Ben couldn't play? In fact, Juju's numbers without Ben are better than AB's numbers without Ben.
2. Juju himself was injured since the first Browns game.
3. The loss of coach Drake really hit Juju. The time it takes to get over such a sudden loss varies from people to people.
4. Juju is still a kid. Despite his experience he's the youngest of our WR's and one of the youngest of the team in general.

Another plus for Juju is that Mark Madden doesn't like him Where does it go from here? - Page 7 1797695198

You're right about Ju Ju. I said early that if we could maybe it was a good idea. I was also pissed and I say things without thinking them through.Having said this I'm not convinced he can be our true #1. If I'm wrong there I'll admit it. I do think whether he is or not with him,Johnson and Washington we're in pretty good shape and shouldn't have to use a pick on a WR this year. He did look like the passing of Drake affected him more than anyone else on the team.
I also hope the FO office can figure out a way to get back into round 1 without giving up our second round pick.I can't see a way and that's why I'm on here instead of talking on the phone to Tomlin and Colbert. Besides that they won't take my calls. Where does it go from here? - Page 7 1797695198
I also agree that if Madden thinks he should go he absolutely belongs on this team.
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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyFri Jan 31, 2020 9:39 am

Both JuJu and the front office have said they are not addressing JuJu's contract at this time. We're in the last year of JuJu's contract. JuJu is a UFA after 2020. Reddit rumors say that JuJu wants a top 5 WR contract.

If we can get a package to move into the first for him, do it. Of course, everything goes back to Ben's elbow. That alone affects pretty much every decision.
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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyFri Jan 31, 2020 9:40 am

Update on Vance.

https://steelersdepot.com/2020/01/steelers-forthcoming-decision-on-te-vance-mcdonald-now-includes-new-twist/
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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: Where does it go from here?   Where does it go from here? - Page 7 EmptyFri Jan 31, 2020 12:33 pm

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2020/1/18/21070915/steelers-podcast-the-steelers-can-fix-their-salary-cap-issues-kevin-colbert-omar-khan-nfl-news

This is a good take on what should and probably will happen with our cap moves.

He's saying these guys will probably be gone

Chickillo
Barron
McDonald
Foster
McCullers
Berry
Alualu
I agree. He also says franchise Dupree and see how he plays in 2020.
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