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PostSubject: Star Wars discussion. SPOILERS!!!!   Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! EmptyMon Dec 21, 2015 8:50 am

You have to suck the sun dry to get the power to destroy the planets but once you suck the sun dry, the planets are dead anyway. What up with that?

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars discussion. SPOILERS!!!!   Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! EmptyMon Dec 21, 2015 9:48 am

Here are my long winded thoughts on who / what everything is. Most of these are my thoughts and options, and are probably not based on any facts.

First Order / Resistance
The First Order is heirs to the Empire. It seems like they have inherited all the old Star Destroyers, uniforms, etc. How powerful are they really though? My thought is, not much at first. The whole First Order / Resistance feels like a local, small scale, and very out of the way conflict. The First Order hasn't yet drawn the attention of the New Republic (that may change after the Starkiller base incident).

As for the Resistance, if you look at the scene where the Resistance X-Wings break out Han and Company, this doesn't seem to be a large scale operation. And why are they using 30+ year old X-Wing designs? My thought is: they are being supported by the New Republic with weapons and ships, but without outright declarations of war. Doesn't Laia say a line like "The Republic fleet won't make it in time" when someone mentioned why they are only attacking with a few fighters.

Kylo Ren
I love Kylo Ren. I love to see his raw, uncontrolled emotion. Contrast this with Vader and his machine like methods. But why does he have to be Han's son? I saw this coming from a mile away. And I saw what happened to Han coming as well. But back to the question: who is he, and how did he fall to the dark side of the force?

Knowing Kylo is part Skywalker, and knowing how the Skywalkers are, Luke declines to train him. Let's take a short side discussion here. One thing that must be true always is: there must be balance within the Force. After Endor, you had Luke and Snoke as the primary good / evil characters. [I'm not going to count Leia here, as she never formally trains within the Force. Nor will I count other force users out there (they have to exist). For instance, there may be a girl somewhere in the galaxy that is very good at getting free drinks at bars using a mind trick. Or a mechanic that can levitate his tools from his tool box. For these examples, they are Force neutral.] So we have Luke beginning to train a new Jedi Order, and as before, we have an unbalanced Force towards good. Kylo Ren, as anyone who wants to do something but can't, strikes out on his own. He finds Snoke, and he begins to train him in the ways of the Force.

Unfortunately, I think I know how the end is going to play out already. Look at the books. It will be a Ren v. Rey showdown. Rey will try do redeem Kylo. Unlike with Anakin, Kylo will not be able to be redeemed and die without turning to the light side of the Force.

Knights Of Ren
Related to Kylo, I think the Knights of Ren are the dark side counterpart to the Jedi knights. If you think about it, the Old Republic lasted generations with the Republic as the political side, and the Jedi as the might behind them. It's a good template, so Snoke uses it. He forms the Knights of Ren to be the might, with the First Order serving as the political side.

So, where are the Knights Of Ren? I can't answer this as of yet.

Snoke
I have no idea who this cat is. From what I've heard, he is old (over 1000 years) and knows everything that has been happening in the universe. Some common fan theories are:

Darth Plagerous (sp?) - the Emperor's master. Although the books have been scrapped, he is still mentioned in the Prequels. There is good evidence to say it is him, and there is enough to say no as well.

Someone new - I hope it is someone new, without any connections to the past.

Here is my thought on who he is (tying it to Kylo and Skywalker). After training Kylo Ren and forming the Knights of Ren, Snoke has him attack the Jedi trainees. Luke, enraged after the deaths of the new Jedi Order, goes after Snoke and maims (but not kills). This would explain why Snoke is in sad shape, and why he wants Skywalker. Perhaps in the battle itself, Luke draws upon the dark side of the Force to defeat Snoke.

Luke Skywalker
If you see my thoughts about Snoke, Luke buries himself after this battle. Considering himself to be a failure, and concerned with using the dark side, he goes into seclusion. This also effectively unbalances the Force, tilted towards the dark side (with Kylo and Snoke running wild).

Rey
I loved her character. But please, for the love of Yoda, don't let her be Skywalker's daughter. I do think she will train with Luke and become a very powerful Jedi. However, to defeat Ren, she will also need to train in the dark side of the force (like in the book Jaina Solo trained with Bobba Fett to defeat Jacen Solo).

General Movie Thoughts
Overall, I liked it. Really liked it. My biggest gripe is, it was like watching A New Hope again. I hope this movie is used as a springboard to new material for the next 2, instead of a re-hash of the old movies.

And I really don't like Leia. I wouldn't mind if Kylo Ren "took care" of her too.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars discussion. SPOILERS!!!!   Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! EmptyMon Dec 21, 2015 11:30 am

The sun thing doesn't bother you?

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars discussion. SPOILERS!!!!   Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! EmptyMon Dec 21, 2015 12:25 pm

Yes. Yes it does.

However, I didn't even think about it until you brought it up. I guess I got lost in the mythos / tie ins to other parts more than losing a sun.

Maybe this device was meant to be a "one shot" device against the New Republic home worlds?
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars discussion. SPOILERS!!!!   Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! EmptyMon Dec 21, 2015 12:44 pm

Good movie overall but considering the hype I was a little disappointed. Pretty much the same story as the original star wars (except the hero who never knows their family is a female). And the massive improvement to the death star has the same weakness that got the other 2 blown up? Fail! lol

Han Solo's son can sense Han's presence when he enters the galaxy, but not when he's standing 40 feet away? come on man. well, maybe that's why he's not a 'darth' yet Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! 1797695198
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars discussion. SPOILERS!!!!   Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! EmptyTue Dec 22, 2015 2:31 am

@Fire Arians wrote:
Good movie overall but considering the hype I was a little disappointed. Pretty much the same story as the original star wars (except the hero who never knows their family is a female). And the massive improvement to the death star has the same weakness that got the other 2 blown up? Fail! lol

Han Solo's son can sense Han's presence when he enters the galaxy, but not when he's standing 40 feet away? come on man. well, maybe that's why he's not a 'darth' yet Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! 1797695198

I'm sure he knew he was there, but that doesn't mean he can pinpoint exactly where. Even Vader couldn't do that. If he could have, it would've been so much easier for him to track down Luke in the original trilogy.

**SPOILERS**

I loved the movie. They brought back a lot of the old cast, and I felt like they did very well overall. If I had to gripe about it I would say that they didn't exactly do much of a sendoff for Han Solo. I felt like they were sad for like five minutes, then when they found out where Luke was he was just kind of forgotten. That part didn't make a whole lot of sense to me, they should've at least had some kind of short ceremony for him considering he was a hero of the Republic and one of the most well known movie characters the world over.

I also felt like they kind of rushed through things at times, but that's just a minor gripe. I would've liked to have seen a little more backstory on Finn and Rey but I suspect we're going to see more of that in upcoming episodes and spin-offs. There was one thing that really did annoy me, and that was the roll of Captain Phasma. She was supposed to be this badass character wearing a chrome stormtrooper armor... Yet she lets Han, Finn, and Chewie get the drop on her and even lowers the shields so the Resistence can carry out their bombing runs... I just don't see a character like that giving in so easily, and I'm assuming they dropped her down that garbage disposal they mentioned? It was like they just put her in the scene for the sake of doing so. We barely saw her in the movie, and the most we saw of her was that scene. I just thought that was very lame. One has to believe that she made if off the planet before the explosion. I guess I can't say I'm surprised by this, as the franchise has a history of failing to develop some of their most badass characters, and killing some of them off in lame fashion. Jango Fett, Boba Fett, and the other Bounty Hunters being the prime example of this. I guess we can add Captain Phasma to that list (for now).

All in all I was very impressed. This movie was infinitely better than  The Phantom Menace, The Clone Wars, and Revenge of the Sith. I felt like the movie was shot very well, with most of it being practical effects. They also did very well with the things they used CGI for as it blended very well with the practical effects in the movie. I felt the acting was very good across the board, and I did find myself chuckling quite a bit throughout the movie at some of the humorous parts, and that reminded me a lot of the original Star Wars trilogy in that regard. I did notice that the story was very similar overall to the story of a New Hope but this is Star Wars, even in the expanded universe novels the stories share a lot of similarities, that's just kind of what makes it Star Wars, so I can't say I'm surprised, or disappointed in that in any way. It's a family affair, and it has been since the originals.

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Fire Arians

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars discussion. SPOILERS!!!!   Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! EmptyTue Dec 22, 2015 12:40 pm

true, compared to the last 3 SW movies, it was really good.

I feel like the series has to make up some ground for those shitty movies and changing the ending to Return of the Jedi, but it's a start.

It just seems like it's the same old story rehashed. Main character doesn't know her real parents or history, works as a scrapper, and will probably find out the real truth sometime by the end of the 2nd movie. Sounds kinda like Luke, but a female version?

And the bad guy ended up being a douchey looking kid on par with Joffrey Baratheon. I was hoping for some badass on par with Darth Vader, not something closer to Haden Christensen's Anakin.

In any case you can probably tell I'm jaded with the series for the last 3 movies, but I still ended up watching. My verdict was it was ok. Good enough to watch, the battle scenes were just awesome, but the storyline just seems like it was recycled. I was hoping for something legendary, comparable to the originals but I guess I just set myself up for disappointment expecting that.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars discussion. SPOILERS!!!!   Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! EmptyTue Dec 22, 2015 8:45 pm

He'll develop into a badass now that he's taken that first full step into the dark side. I think the Kylo Ren we saw is going to be very different.

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars discussion. SPOILERS!!!!   Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! EmptyWed Dec 23, 2015 8:56 am

@IowaSteeler927 wrote:
He'll develop into a badass now that he's taken that first full step into the dark side. I think the Kylo Ren we saw is going to be very different.

I think what you are going to see out of Kylo is a constant fight between good and dark. If you think back to Vader, Vader was almost machine like in his duties. There was very few times you saw any hint of good. One was where the Emperor asked Vader if he feelings on bringing Luke to him were clear. The second was when Luke stated he felt the conflict, the good in him. The finale, of course, when Vader was redeemed in the light by throwing the Emperor off the cliff.

Contrast with Kylo, I think you will see a continual battle between light and dark, with dark winning out. And this is how I think the trilogy will end, with Ren trying to redeem Kylo, and failing in the end. This similar plot line played out in the Legends Books, with Jacen and Jana Solo.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars discussion. SPOILERS!!!!   Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! EmptyWed Dec 23, 2015 9:08 am

@Fire Arians wrote:
true, compared to the last 3 SW movies, it was really good.

I feel like the series has to make up some ground for those shitty movies and changing the ending to Return of the Jedi, but it's a start.

It just seems like it's the same old story rehashed. Main character doesn't know her real parents or history, works as a scrapper, and will probably find out the real truth sometime by the end of the 2nd movie. Sounds kinda like Luke, but a female version?

And the bad guy ended up being a douchey looking kid on par with Joffrey Baratheon. I was hoping for some badass on par with Darth Vader, not something closer to Haden Christensen's Anakin.

In any case you can probably tell I'm jaded with the series for the last 3 movies, but I still ended up watching. My verdict was it was ok. Good enough to watch, the battle scenes were just awesome, but the storyline just seems like it was recycled. I was hoping for something legendary, comparable to the originals but I guess I just set myself up for disappointment expecting that.

I hope Ep. 8 goes in a different direction. If it's a rehash of Ep. 5, I'll really start questioning if the Star Wars universe has anything left. I'm OK with Ep. 7 being a springboard into something (that who those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it type thing). And I really hope they don't follow the script of bad guy, badder guy, and baddest guy in determining villains for the movies. I want to see some moral ambiguity, perhaps Jedi developing dark side powers and Sith using the light once in a while.

I actually liked Kylo Ren. He's young, and not in full control of his Dark Side Powers yet. I didn't expect a Darth Vader, as that was a once in a lifetime bad guy. But the raw outbursts of emotion were great to see. Vader would have never trashed a panel with his lightsaber.

Do what I do for the first movies. Forget the Ep. 1 exists. Start with Ep. 2. and conclude with Ep. 3: Anakin falls to the dark side over a woman. Isn't the first time the universe has seen a guy go crazy over some bitch.

There were really interesting things about the first 3 movies that they could have done, but chose not too. I remember walking out of Ep. 2 wondering who Syfo Dias was, and why did he order the Clone Army. And Ep. 3 was pretty solid. I would have liked to see more of the Order 66, Anakin's attack on the Jedi Temple, and more of the early machinations of the Emperor / Vader, but I'll take it for what it was.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars discussion. SPOILERS!!!!   Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! EmptyThu Dec 24, 2015 1:20 am

@jak341 wrote:


I actually liked Kylo Ren. He's young, and not in full control of his Dark Side Powers yet. I didn't expect a Darth Vader, as that was a once in a lifetime bad guy. But the raw outbursts of emotion were great to see. Vader would have never trashed a panel with his lightsaber.


I was a fan as well. That second time he threw a fit and the Stormtroopers were walking down the hallway... That was pretty hilarious. The raw emotion though, I think that's something you'd definitely see from a person like him that hasn't yet perfected his powers, and is struggling between the light and the dark. I really liked Kylo, and I really think he's going to be a much darker character in the next episodes. I think that act of killing his own Father will have pushed him too far to be redeemed. Then again, Vader redeemed himself, and he killed the person he loved the most... So I guess one cannot write off the possibility that he does somehow redeem himself in the end... I just have a gut feeling he's going to be pure evil from here on out. Vader killed Padme in a fit of rage when he was emotionally vulnerable. Kylo stood face to face with his father, and killed him in a very personal manner. I mean he looked him right in the eye and stuck his saber through him. Literally watched him die, and even when Han touched his face just before he died, I saw no turmoil there. It was like a relief to him, which is scary to be quite honest.


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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars discussion. SPOILERS!!!!   Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! EmptyTue Dec 29, 2015 12:29 pm

Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! MezBjZ0

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars discussion. SPOILERS!!!!   Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! EmptyWed Dec 30, 2015 9:02 am

I enjoyed it. Question: Who saw it in 3d, and who saw it normal? Preference??

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars discussion. SPOILERS!!!!   Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! EmptyWed Dec 30, 2015 9:07 am

@Drizztbob wrote:
I enjoyed it.  Question: Who saw it in 3d, and who saw it normal?  Preference??

I saw it in 3D. It probably doesn't take anything away without it, but it was pretty awesome. Ever since the gimmick of it has worn off, I think filmmakers have used it more to show depth which definitely shows in this.

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars discussion. SPOILERS!!!!   Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! EmptyWed Dec 30, 2015 9:08 am

@Drizztbob wrote:
I enjoyed it.  Question: Who saw it in 3d, and who saw it normal?  Preference??

I saw it in IMAX 3D. I figured it was worth it once. I wouldn't pay for a 2nd 3D viewing.

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars discussion. SPOILERS!!!!   Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! EmptyWed Dec 30, 2015 9:41 am

I went to the standard edition. 3D has never really made me feel like it's worth sitting there with those clunky, uncomfortable glasses on my head for an entire movie.

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars discussion. SPOILERS!!!!   Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! EmptyWed Dec 30, 2015 9:44 am

I saw it in 3D opening night. I'm not a big 3D person, but those are the tickets the first wifdwife bought.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars discussion. SPOILERS!!!!   Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! EmptyWed Dec 30, 2015 4:01 pm

Yeah 3d was all that was avail for us, and it was OK. I'd rather watch a sharper image in 2d.

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars discussion. SPOILERS!!!!   Star Wars discussion.  SPOILERS!!!! EmptyWed Dec 30, 2015 7:10 pm

I saw it in 3D on opening night. It was the only thing available when I bought the tickets. I will probably go for a second viewing soon and will watch it in 2D then.
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