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 Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?

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Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 03, 2016 3:12 pm

Quote :
The Steelers could beat the Ravens 70-3, and after the game you'd do nothing but bitch about the defense giving up the field goal.

Ahh the ol' fantasy logic of typing scores that would never happen to try and make a point.

Sad part? We don't beat the Ravens anymore either. They've owned us since You Know Who showed up.

Quote :
. I have no doubt that you'd rather see the Steelers offense struggle just so you can cay "I told you so." You'd rather lose and be right than win and be wrong.

No, I would rather Todd Haley get the hell of Ben's way and let him do his goddamn job. But he won't, because Haley has to be the star. What's even MORE sad? Is that Tomlin appears to be a willing accomplice to this crap.

Quote :
Then again, even if they win, you'll still argue that you're right. Because you can't be content with winning.

Actually it was Art II who couldn't be content with winning. In 5 years with Tomlin/BA/Ben it was 55 wins, 25 losses, three AFCN titles, two AFC titles, 1 SB ring.

And somehow that wasn't good enough.

And they haven't won shit since.

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Wallace108

Wallace108

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Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 03, 2016 3:16 pm

If we're going to cherry pick games to "prove" our points ...

Dec. 10, 2009

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Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 03, 2016 3:38 pm

@Wallace108 wrote:
If we're going to cherry pick games to "prove" our points ...

Dec. 10, 2009

Yeah, the FIRST AND ONLY TIME in the first EIGHT YEARS of the Ben Era they lost to the Browns.

Then Todd Haley showed up, and they've already beat us TWICE in half the time.

You really need to know when to quit. LOL
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Wallace108

Wallace108

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PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 03, 2016 3:53 pm

@Crash wrote:
@Wallace108 wrote:
If we're going to cherry pick games to "prove" our points ...

Dec. 10, 2009

Yeah, the FIRST AND ONLY TIME in the first EIGHT YEARS of the Ben Era they lost to the Browns.

Then Todd Haley showed up, and they've already beat us TWICE in half the time.  

You really need to know when to quit.  LOL  

Nice try at misdirecting. Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 1401235891

It's not about who they lost to. It's about why they lost. But by all means, argue that Arians' game plan and play calling was genius.

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Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 03, 2016 4:00 pm

@Wallace108 wrote:
@Crash wrote:
@Wallace108 wrote:
If we're going to cherry pick games to "prove" our points ...

Dec. 10, 2009

Yeah, the FIRST AND ONLY TIME in the first EIGHT YEARS of the Ben Era they lost to the Browns.

Then Todd Haley showed up, and they've already beat us TWICE in half the time.  

You really need to know when to quit.  LOL  

Nice try at misdirecting. Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 1401235891

It's not about who they lost to. It's about why they lost

Yeah, they came out with the wind at their backs, but instead of throwing early, and trying to get a quick lead and then watch the Browns quit, Arians did what people wanted and wasted 3 of their first 4 drives trying to run the ball.

And it didn't work.

Like I said, you need to learn when to quit. It's obvious you don't watch games as closely as I do. You're completely out of your league when discussing this team with me.
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El-Gonzo Jackson

El-Gonzo Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 03, 2016 4:31 pm

@Crash wrote:
@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
@Crash wrote:
Yup.  Look it up.  Outsiders don't win.  In house people do.  

But the difference if they hired me would be I KNOW, that winning is all that matters.  I wouldn't have to show people how smart I am.  I would trust my talent, keep subbing to a bare minimum, and get the hell out of my HOF QB's way and turn him loose.  

You wouldn't see 330 pound tackles entering the game on 2nd and 10 from my own 20 and running a pass pattern like Todd Haley has done.  You wouldn't see me taking my best pass catcher off the field on the biggest 3rd down of the season to call a play for a un-drafted scrub who didn't play one snap in the second half to that point either.  You wouldn't see me, after my QB got the credit for his football intellect in running the no huddle, take away his play-calling duties in the no huddle the next season simply because I demand more credit like Todd Haley did to Ben in 2014.    

Unlike Haley, the offense wouldn't be about me.  It would be about putting my talent in the best possible situation to win football games and then just get out of their way and watch them do their job.

You said it yourself, outsiders don't win.  You would not make it based upon the pure factual history of the situation.

But, don't let that stop you.  The ideas you expressed in this post are worthy of you finding an agent (try Rosenhaus, or ROC Nation, or Jerry Maguire) and getting a shot with the San Antonio Predators to start.  You could be the next Mouse Davis with your innovative thinking.

Nothing innovative about it.  It keeps it simple.  

Just like Haley was forced to in week two last season.  

Just like Haley did the first 25 minutes of 2014.

Just like Haley did in the first half of the Lions game in 2013 (That was also when Randy Fichtner and Kirby Wilson were given more duties within the offense by Coach Tomlin).  

It's very simple really.  Stop wasting plays/drives with bums like Speath, Nix, and now the returning David Johnson on the field, stick with three wides, a TE, and a RB.  Mix between having Ben under center, and the shotgun.  Move the pocket to protect Ben and help the offensive line.  

Regardless of how well Bell is playing, put DeAngelo in every 3rd series to preserve Bell's legs.  

Get a true 3rd down back in the Verron Haynes mold also to help preserve BOTH Bell and Williams.

It's not rocket science.  Again, go watch the games I listed above.  

The LESSER Todd Haley is involved, the BETTER the offense works.  

But he needs to check his ego at the door, and just allow the talent to do their jobs.    

Would you run inside zone, power man or outside zone in the run game? Any thoughts on how you like to block it up vs an even or odd defensive front?

Moving the pocket narrows the field, but is that something that has worked for you in the past? Personally, I would rather allow a veteran QB like Ben to make the pre snap reads and use all the field instead of moving the pocket on him. Besides, heavy footed guy like Foster at LG and a raw OT like Villaneuva likely would not maintain their responsibility on the move as well as a set pocket.

Do you like the WR screen game? What works better for you in the intermediate passing game, option routes or timing? How much 5 and 7 step drops would you try to employ?

As you say, its not rocket science.
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Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 03, 2016 6:07 pm

Quote :
Would you run inside zone, power man or outside zone in the run game? Any thoughts on how you like to block it up vs an even or odd defensive front?

Moving the pocket narrows the field, but is that something that has worked for you in the past?

Moving the pocket worked well for Ben for 8 years.  

Then Haley showed up and we rarely do it.  He makes the job EASIER for the opponent by keeping Ben in the pocket.  

Have to run wide to keep the defense honest.  Go watch our games.  As soon as defenses see two TE's on the field and Ben is under center, they cheat towards the middle before the snap.  They know what's coming before we even snap the ball.  

I don't think Villanueva wins the LT job to be honest with you.  I think he ends up being the swing man for BOTH OT positions.  

Go watch the first pass Ben threw in SB XLIII.  That was an 8 year staple with first Whiz, and then Arians with Ben.  With Haley it's a rarity.  That must change.  

I don't mind the WR screens when they aren't the focal point of the offense.  Fans HATED with WR screens when the previous OC ran them (and no where near as frequent as the current OC does), but a local guy becomes OC and all of the sudden it's accepted.  

Coach Tomlin needs to put his foot down and tell Haley to keep the subbing to a bare minimum, three wide base offense and stop the needless tricks.  If he won't do that?  He should just resign and let Haley become the head coach.  

I'll trust Ben with any three wides you give him.  As long as it keeps #45, #89, and David Johnson off the field.
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kirklandrules

kirklandrules

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Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 03, 2016 9:51 pm

@Crash wrote:
Quote :
Would you run inside zone, power man or outside zone in the run game? Any thoughts on how you like to block it up vs an even or odd defensive front?

Moving the pocket narrows the field, but is that something that has worked for you in the past?

Moving the pocket worked well for Ben for 8 years.  

Then Haley showed up and we rarely do it.  He makes the job EASIER for the opponent by keeping Ben in the pocket.  

Have to run wide to keep the defense honest.  Go watch our games.  As soon as defenses see two TE's on the field and Ben is under center, they cheat towards the middle before the snap.  They know what's coming before we even snap the ball.  

I don't think Villanueva wins the LT job to be honest with you.  I think he ends up being the swing man for BOTH OT positions.  

Go watch the first pass Ben threw in SB XLIII.  That was an 8 year staple with first Whiz, and then Arians with Ben.  With Haley it's a rarity.  That must change.  

I don't mind the WR screens when they aren't the focal point of the offense.  Fans HATED with WR screens when the previous OC ran them (and no where near as frequent as the current OC does), but a local guy becomes OC and all of the sudden it's accepted.  

Coach Tomlin needs to put his foot down and tell Haley to keep the subbing to a bare minimum, three wide base offense and stop the needless tricks.  If he won't do that?  He should just resign and let Haley become the head coach.  

I'll trust Ben with any three wides you give him.  As long as it keeps #45, #89, and David Johnson off the field.

Yeah, you're right, it was great under Arians ... Ben was rarely under pressure or sacked. Except when Arians decided to do what everyone wanted him to do, then it went poorly for Ben (because Arians comes across as a guy who caves to the fans and anyone else).

Let's interject a little fact into that:

Sack % (as a percentage of pass attempts):

Arians
2007 - 10.4%
2008 -  8.9%
2009 -  9.0%
2010 -  7.6%
2011 -  7.2%

Haley
2012 -  6.3%
2013 -  6.7%
2014 -  5.1%
2015 -  4.1%

The truth of the matter is that Haley has coached Ben to take less hits and less sacks. There's no denying it and Ben even stated such several times.

Passing Yards:

Arians
2007 - 30th
2008 - 32nd
2009 - 17th
2010 - 21st
2011 - 32nd

Haley
2012 - 32nd
2013 - 24th
2014 - 6th
2015 - 3rd

Hell, you're a Ben supporter? You should beat one out thinking of Haley! Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 798776511 He makes Ben great. He's having the best seasons of his career under Haley.

Here's a few more facts for ya:

Defensive Rankings:

Arians
2007 - 1   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 469886443  
2008 - 1   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 469886443
2009 - 5   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 469886443
2010 - 2   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 469886443
2011 - 1   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 469886443

Haley
2012 - 1
2013 - 13
2014 - 18
2015 - 21


Fact is Todd Haley's offense has carried this team. Arians had the top rated defense 3 years and always had a top 5 defense. The Arians' era was basically a "defense wins championships". That is long gone with the loss of all the defensive talent, and yet Haley has kept this team relevant. Hell, if they had a defense near the top 10, they would have had a good chance at a SB last year. They were a few minutes away from the AFC championship with the 21st ranked defense, that's insane. Arians never could have sniffed that.

Finally, you talk about the Steelers succeeding when they keep in-house? Sh!t, you don't get more in-house than Haley. The guy was the kid running the tee off the field on kickoffs for the Steelers back in the day for Pete's sake ... his old man was a part of the winning success for this organization. You don't get any more homerish than Haley.

I'm not an Arians hater. I've given him his props for winning. But Haley is doing the things that will make a great Ben Roethlisberger a legend. Arians allowed Ben "to be Ben". Haley has asked Ben to be an NFL QB and Ben has prospered like he's never done before.
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Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 1:48 am

Quote :
Arians
2007 - 30th
2008 - 32nd
2009 - 17th
2010 - 21st
2011 - 32nd

Those stats are wrong.  Flat wrong.  

Get the basics right, then get back to me.  

Quote :
Hell, you're a Ben supporter? You should beat one out thinking of Haley!  He makes Ben great. He's having the best seasons of his career under Haley.

What's sad is you actually believe that.  

Because you're another one that doesn't know what context means.  As I said before, I don't give a rats ass when Ben throws for garbage time stats in losses.  And he's thrown MORE irrelevant TD passes in four years with Haley, than he did in his first 8 seasons without him.

Quote :
Finally, you talk about the Steelers succeeding when they keep in-house? Sh!t, you don't get more in-house than Haley. The guy was the kid running the tee off the field on kickoffs for the Steelers back in the day for Pete's sake ... his old man was a part of the winning success for this organization. You don't get any more homerish than Haley.

I know who his father is.  That's the ONLY reason we even hired his psycho son.  And it's the only reason he hasn't been fired.  If any other OC pulled the shit Haley has since he's been here, both on and off the field, they would have been fired long ago.  

Quote :
I'm not an Arians hater. I've given him his props for winning. But Haley is doing the things that will make a great Ben Roethlisberger a legend.

Ben was a legend long before Toddy showed up you dimwit.  88 yards in two minutes on the NFL's grandest stage, as well as his first three games of the 2005 playoffs cemented his legacy whither his "fans" like or not.  

Quote :
Arians allowed Ben "to be Ben". Haley has asked Ben to be an NFL QB and Ben has prospered like he's never done before.

So you're saying that Ben wasn't "an NFL QB" before Haley?  

Fans like you make me sick.  Fans like you deserve 20 straight years of shit once Ben retires.  The constant backhanded compliments Ben gets from his own alleged fan base is sad, pathetic, and embarrassing.

How dare you.  To sit there and degrade Ben's work prior to Haley?  What a fucking joke!

Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 2697857646

Just remember what Troy Polamalu said after SB XLIII:

"Ben should just keep being Ben"

I'll listen to the FOOTBALL PLAYER.

You can have your former part time college golf coach.
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Wallace108

Wallace108

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PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 6:30 am

@Crash wrote:
@Wallace108 wrote:
@Crash wrote:
@Wallace108 wrote:
If we're going to cherry pick games to "prove" our points ...

Dec. 10, 2009

Yeah, the FIRST AND ONLY TIME in the first EIGHT YEARS of the Ben Era they lost to the Browns.

Then Todd Haley showed up, and they've already beat us TWICE in half the time.  

You really need to know when to quit.  LOL  

Nice try at misdirecting. Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 1401235891

It's not about who they lost to. It's about why they lost

Yeah, they came out with the wind at their backs, but instead of throwing early, and trying to get a quick lead and then watch the Browns quit, Arians did what people wanted and wasted 3 of their first 4 drives trying to run the ball.    

And it didn't work.  

Like I said, you need to learn when to quit.  It's obvious you don't watch games as closely as I do.  You're completely out of your league when discussing this team with me.  

Are you saying that an Arians-led offense couldn't successfully run the ball against what was the 32nd-ranked run defense in the league? Why is that? Arians' genius game planning and play calling couldn't score more than 6 points against what was the worst defense in the league? Instead of pounding the ball down the throat of the worst run defense in the NFL in a game with swirling 20 mph winds, Arians had Ben dropping back and throwing 32 passes. He was sacked 8 times. They managed to score 6 points against the worst defense in the league. And instead of blaming Arians, you blame the fans. Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 1505004552 Or maybe you blame the defense for giving up a whopping 13 points. You'll blame everyone but Arians.

Be honest for once ... if Haley was the offensive coordinator in that game, what would you be saying, and who would you be blaming? Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 2655877496

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Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 Juju10

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PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 8:19 am

@Crash wrote:
Quote :
Arians
2007 - 30th
2008 - 32nd
2009 - 17th
2010 - 21st
2011 - 32nd

Those stats are wrong.  Flat wrong.  

Get the basics right, then get back to me.   

So what are the 'basics'?

Here's some facts you can chew on:
Games played under BA - 73 (should be 4 more but 2010 we won't talk about)
Games played under Haley - 53 to date (should be play all 16 this season its a tie)

Passing yards under BA - 18,060
Passing yards under Haley - 16,416

TD passes under BA - 113
TD passes under Haley - 107

Interceptions under BA - 57
Interceptions under Haley - 47

And just a side 'FACT' for you, that under Haley, Ben had 2 of the single greatest games in back to back weeks passing for 12td passes and almost 1000 yards.

By the sounds of it those are black spots on your brain. It's too bad because I was at the Ravens game when he lit them up. It was probably the greatest game I've witnessed LIVE! Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 1372836603 Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 3056903510

Funny thing is you haven't had any facts to back up your statements or lack of arguments.
So I hope you keep trying because I am thoroughly entertained Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 2893009358
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kirklandrules

kirklandrules

Posts : 1724
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PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 9:23 am

@Crash wrote:
Quote :
Arians
2007 - 30th
2008 - 32nd
2009 - 17th
2010 - 21st
2011 - 32nd

Those stats are wrong.  Flat wrong.  

Get the basics right, then get back to me.

Feel free to sort through ESPN's stats and let them know how wrong they are.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing/position/defense

Under Arians, Ben threw for touchdowns, but his total yards were lacking. Hence he was never considered one of the greats because his yardage lacked. Of course he picked up plenty of yardage in garbage time under Arians.

@Crash wrote:
Quote :
Hell, you're a Ben supporter? You should beat one out thinking of Haley!  He makes Ben great. He's having the best seasons of his career under Haley.

What's sad is you actually believe that.  

Because you're another one that doesn't know what context means.  As I said before, I don't give a rats ass when Ben throws for garbage time stats in losses.  And he's thrown MORE irrelevant TD passes in four years with Haley, than he did in his first 8 seasons without him.

Oh, o.k. he only throws garbage time TDs under Haley. That's why they have been winning with a defense that doesn't win games like they did for Arians.

@Crash wrote:
Quote :
Finally, you talk about the Steelers succeeding when they keep in-house? Sh!t, you don't get more in-house than Haley. The guy was the kid running the tee off the field on kickoffs for the Steelers back in the day for Pete's sake ... his old man was a part of the winning success for this organization. You don't get any more homerish than Haley.

I know who his father is.  That's the ONLY reason we even hired his psycho son.  And it's the only reason he hasn't been fired.  If any other OC pulled the shit Haley has since he's been here, both on and off the field, they would have been fired long ago.

So the ONLY reason the Steelers won't fire Haley is because his father? I'll just laugh at that comment.  Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 1664291743  Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 1549491426  Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 1797695198  Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 2573146105  Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 3798349058

@Crash wrote:
Quote :
I'm not an Arians hater. I've given him his props for winning. But Haley is doing the things that will make a great Ben Roethlisberger a legend.

Ben was a legend long before Toddy showed up you dimwit.  88 yards in two minutes on the NFL's grandest stage, as well as his first three games of the 2005 playoffs cemented his legacy whither his "fans" like or not.  

Quote :
Arians allowed Ben "to be Ben". Haley has asked Ben to be an NFL QB and Ben has prospered like he's never done before.

So you're saying that Ben wasn't "an NFL QB" before Haley?  

Fans like you make me sick.  Fans like you deserve 20 straight years of shit once Ben retires.  The constant backhanded compliments Ben gets from his own alleged fan base is sad, pathetic, and embarrassing.

How dare you.  To sit there and degrade Ben's work prior to Haley?  What a fucking joke!

Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 2697857646
First off, if you could get off your hatred of Haley and the Steelers fan base, you'll note that I wasn't degrading Ben or his work prior to Haley. In fact, I have been crediting the Steelers winning to Ben, not Arians. As I said, Arians ran an offense that basically let Ben be Ben. Meaning (let me break this down for you) Ben made the plays that Arians didn't call. You're so far up Arians ass that you can't even follow the argument here.

I also said, that under Arians Ben was a great QB. He'll be a legend under Haley. Prior to the last 2 seasons, Ben was on par with Eli Manning and Philip Rivers when the pundits named great QBs. He's finally mentioned among the top QBs. Why? Because he's finally being asked to make those pin-point throws that he always possessed, but never was asked to make. Everything was with his ability to extend plays ... now he's dropping dimes.

Normally I'd apologize if anything I'd done something that makes someone ill. But you showed up with that illness Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 469886443

@Crash wrote:
Just remember what Troy Polamalu said after SB XLIII:

"Ben should just keep being Ben"

I'll listen to the FOOTBALL PLAYER.  

You can have your former part time college golf coach.  

That's pretty funny. So you're implying that my knowledge of the game comes from unaccredited sources? So feel really good that you think you know what you're talking about because you'll "listen to the FOOTBALL PLAYER". I have first hand knowledge of this game that goes well beyond your tape watching, quote gathering, statistics gleaning knowledge ... so you can take that thought and stuff it in your pie hole.
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PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 9:33 am

@kirklandrules wrote:
@Crash wrote:
Quote :
Arians
2007 - 30th
2008 - 32nd
2009 - 17th
2010 - 21st
2011 - 32nd

Those stats are wrong.  Flat wrong.  

Get the basics right, then get back to me.

Feel free to sort through ESPN's stats and let them know how wrong they are.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing/position/defense

Under Arians, Ben threw for touchdowns, but his total yards were lacking. Hence he was never considered one of the greats because his yardage lacked. Of course he picked up plenty of yardage in garbage time under Arians.

@Crash wrote:
Quote :
Hell, you're a Ben supporter? You should beat one out thinking of Haley!  He makes Ben great. He's having the best seasons of his career under Haley.

What's sad is you actually believe that.  

Because you're another one that doesn't know what context means.  As I said before, I don't give a rats ass when Ben throws for garbage time stats in losses.  And he's thrown MORE irrelevant TD passes in four years with Haley, than he did in his first 8 seasons without him.

Oh, o.k. he only throws garbage time TDs under Haley. That's why they have been winning with a defense that doesn't win games like they did for Arians.

@Crash wrote:
Quote :
Finally, you talk about the Steelers succeeding when they keep in-house? Sh!t, you don't get more in-house than Haley. The guy was the kid running the tee off the field on kickoffs for the Steelers back in the day for Pete's sake ... his old man was a part of the winning success for this organization. You don't get any more homerish than Haley.

I know who his father is.  That's the ONLY reason we even hired his psycho son.  And it's the only reason he hasn't been fired.  If any other OC pulled the shit Haley has since he's been here, both on and off the field, they would have been fired long ago.

So the ONLY reason the Steelers won't fire Haley is because his father? I'll just laugh at that comment.  Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 1664291743  Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 1549491426  Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 1797695198  Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 2573146105  Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 3798349058

@Crash wrote:
Quote :
I'm not an Arians hater. I've given him his props for winning. But Haley is doing the things that will make a great Ben Roethlisberger a legend.

Ben was a legend long before Toddy showed up you dimwit.  88 yards in two minutes on the NFL's grandest stage, as well as his first three games of the 2005 playoffs cemented his legacy whither his "fans" like or not.  

Quote :
Arians allowed Ben "to be Ben". Haley has asked Ben to be an NFL QB and Ben has prospered like he's never done before.

So you're saying that Ben wasn't "an NFL QB" before Haley?  

Fans like you make me sick.  Fans like you deserve 20 straight years of shit once Ben retires.  The constant backhanded compliments Ben gets from his own alleged fan base is sad, pathetic, and embarrassing.

How dare you.  To sit there and degrade Ben's work prior to Haley?  What a fucking joke!

Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 2697857646
First off, if you could get off your hatred of Haley and the Steelers fan base, you'll note that I wasn't degrading Ben or his work prior to Haley. In fact, I have been crediting the Steelers winning to Ben, not Arians. As I said, Arians ran an offense that basically let Ben be Ben. Meaning (let me break this down for you) Ben made the plays that Arians didn't call. You're so far up Arians ass that you can't even follow the argument here.

I also said, that under Arians Ben was a great QB. He'll be a legend under Haley. Prior to the last 2 seasons, Ben was on par with Eli Manning and Philip Rivers when the pundits named great QBs. He's finally mentioned among the top QBs. Why? Because he's finally being asked to make those pin-point throws that he always possessed, but never was asked to make. Everything was with his ability to extend plays ... now he's dropping dimes.

Normally I'd apologize if anything I'd done something that makes someone ill. But you showed up with that illness Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 469886443

@Crash wrote:
Just remember what Troy Polamalu said after SB XLIII:

"Ben should just keep being Ben"

I'll listen to the FOOTBALL PLAYER.  

You can have your former part time college golf coach.  

That's pretty funny. So you're implying that my knowledge of the game comes from unaccredited sources? So feel really good that you think you know what you're talking about because you'll "listen to the FOOTBALL PLAYER". I have first hand knowledge of this game that goes well beyond your tape watching, quote gathering, statistics gleaning knowledge ... so you can take that thought and stuff it in your pie hole.
Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 2744185472

ZING! lol
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vasteeler

vasteeler

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PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 9:58 am

ugh! not this crash guy again Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 1505004552

how can you deny that ben has had his best production under haley. not to even mention his sack totals are a lot less than what he used to take

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PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 10:29 am

Quote :
Passing yards under BA - 18,060
Passing yards under Haley - 16,416

And like I just told KR.  Total yards without context means squat.  You are actually DEGRADING Ben's pre-Haley work by not taking into account when they had games well in hand and stopped throwing the ball. You are also ignoring when they were woefully behind with Haley and Ben piled up garbage time stats.  The 2012 Chargers game, and the 2014 Saints game are prime examples.  

Quote :
And just a side 'FACT' for you, that under Haley, Ben had 2 of the single greatest games in back to back weeks passing for 12td passes and almost 1000 yards.

And then they ended the season with 20 points or LESS on OFFENSE, in six of their last eight games.  And one of the games they didn't? He threw two meaningless scrap time TD's against the Saints in a 4th quarter with no chance to win.

Pretty sad when all people can come up with are TWO GAMES for Ben with Haley, while ignoring the overall work.
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PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 10:32 am

@vasteeler wrote:
ugh! not this crash guy again Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 1505004552

how can you deny that ben has had his best production under haley.

Because I actually watch Ben in the proper context. And not just throwing out stats as a whole.

Quote :
not to even mention his sack totals are a lot less than what he used to take

Screw sacks. It's about HITS, he's taking BIG SHOTS under Haley. He's missing more games under Haley.
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PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 11:25 am

Quote :
Feel free to sort through ESPN's stats and let them know how wrong they are.
espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing/position/defense

Can someone please alert this guy what he's doing wrong?  I don't have the heart to tell him.  

Quote :
Under Arians, Ben threw for touchdowns, but his total yards were lacking. Hence he was never considered one of the greats because his yardage lacked.

BS.  The people who slammed Ben slammed him because they didn't WATCH him.  They'd read box scores without context.  Just like you're doing right now for instance.  

Quote :
Of course he picked up plenty of yardage in garbage time under Arians.

You're FOS.  Ben lost as a starter 25 games in five years with Arians, they weren't blown out nearly as much as they are now.  Despite missing 7 games with Haley (So much for keeping Ben "safe" in this offense), he's already lost the same 25 games despite having Haley for one year LESS.  

Quote :
Oh, o.k. he only throws garbage time TDs under Haley. That's why they have been winning with a defense that doesn't win games like they did for Arians.

Winning what? One playoff game (they scored under 20, have scored under 20 in three playoff games with Haley)?  Back to back years sitting at home?  Back to back 8-8 seasons which NEVER happened in the Ben Era before you know who showed up?  When's the parade?  

Quote :
So the ONLY reason the Steelers won't fire Haley is because his father? I'll just laugh at that comment.

Mostly because Art II won't admit he made the mistake of hiring him.  Todd Haley's bizarre behavior off the field was well known BEFORE we hired him.  Since we've hired him we've seen:  

Haley in a bar 11 hours before kickoff of the 2013 season.  

Haley being sued by a land lord for stealing items out of a house.  

Haley being sued by a dog kennel for not paying his bills.  

His goofy wife sending out nudes because she's a swinger (One of her favorite hangouts is Rivers Casino apparently)

Haley missing the team flight to Baltimore because he was the ONLY member of the passenger list to be "stuck in traffic".  

Simply put, Todd Haley isn't worth the headache he gives you.  The lack of results on the field are proof of that.  

Quote :
First off, if you could get off your hatred of Haley and the Steelers fan base, you'll note that I wasn't degrading Ben or his work prior to Haley.

Your words below, and I quote:

"Haley has asked Ben to be an NFL QB and Ben has prospered like he's never done before."

Not only did you degrade Ben once, you actually degraded him twice in that statement.

Quote :
Prior to the last 2 seasons, Ben was on par with Eli Manning and Philip Rivers when the pundits named great QBs.

Actually that's incorrect also.  Because Pro Football Reference actually has a comparison chart for players at points of their careers.  

After Ben's first 8 years before Haley showed up? The FIRST TWO guys he compares with?  John Elway, and Jim Kelly.  
Two of the best of all time and both enshrined in Canton.

Quote :
He's finally mentioned among the top QBs. Why? Because he's finally being asked to make those pin-point throws that he always possessed, but never was asked to make. Everything was with his ability to extend plays ... now he's dropping dimes.

For someone who doesn't degrade Ben you sure as hell do it an awful lot.  

Read this below, this was during the 2011 season, BEFORE Todd Haley showed up:  

Prior to our game in San Francisco, a SF website interviewed Greg Cosell, who actually gets PAID, to break down NFL film for a living.  

MURPH: You’ve seen this guy play hurt a lot over the years, haven’t you?

COSELL: “Yeah. Look, I would have a tough time believing he won’t play, but again we’ll see how it impacts his movement.

Although, one of the big myths about Roethlisberger – and again, this comes from watching every play – is that all his big plays come from outside the pocket. That is very far from the truth. That’s a myth. The large, large majority of his plays come from within the pocket. It’s just that we see on Sportscenter nine thousand times all those plays when he’s outside the pocket, so the perception is that’s what he does. But for the most part, the large majority of what he does comes from throws within the pocket area.”  

Cosell breaks down film for a living, and I have every snap of Ben's career on a shelf five feet from where I'm typing this.  I would bet most don't.  He does the same thing I have done in regards to Ben for a living, I do it to defend Ben's career from ungrateful blowhards like you.  

Quote :
That's pretty funny. So you're implying that my knowledge of the game comes from unaccredited sources?

Not at all.  You listen to golf coach Todd Haley and his alleged brilliance.  

I'll listen to Troy Polamalu.  

I think we both know who has the better track record in the NFL and as a human being.
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El-Gonzo Jackson

El-Gonzo Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 11:27 am

@kirklandrules wrote:
@Crash wrote:
Quote :
Arians
2007 - 30th
2008 - 32nd
2009 - 17th
2010 - 21st
2011 - 32nd

Those stats are wrong.  Flat wrong.  

Get the basics right, then get back to me.

Feel free to sort through ESPN's stats and let them know how wrong they are.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing/position/defense

Under Arians, Ben threw for touchdowns, but his total yards were lacking. Hence he was never considered one of the greats because his yardage lacked. Of course he picked up plenty of yardage in garbage time under Arians.




:
Kirk, how dare you cite stats that are Flat Wrong that are published from the worldwide leader in sports. Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 3562723908

Ben seems to hate how Haley is ruining his career. Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 798776511 As evidence from this article shows.

When Ben Roethlisberger watches film of last season's games, he can see what about Todd Haley's offense suits him well.

“All of it,” Roethlisberger said in an interview last week. “We work well together. Guys believe in it and believe in each other. That’s one of the biggest keys
.”...

Both Roethlisberger and Haley, who is entering his fourth season as Pittsburgh's offensive coordinator, have expressed happiness with the balance struck between implementing Haley’s quick passing game -- with an emphasis on yards after the catch -- and utilizing Roethlisberger’s ability to improvise, or make “Ben-like plays,” as Haley calls them.

Roethlisberger was sacked 33 times last season, his lowest total since 2005....

Roethlisberger believes he hasn’t altered his game too much. At 33, he’s not looking to scramble very often, he said.

He’s simply asked to hold onto the ball for less time than when he played for former offensive coordinator Bruce Arians, who has an affinity for the deep ball.

“I think that’s what it is more than me changing or anyone changing,” Roethlisberger said
.


http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/14156/steelers-ben-roethlisberger-all-of-todd-haleys-offense-suits-me

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PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 11:38 am

Quote :
irk, how dare you cite stats that are Flat Wrong that are published from the worldwide leader in sports.

Look at the link.  He's posting DEFENSIVE rankings.

What would you expect Ben to say? You can read Ben all you want.

But watch a game, watch the times when Haley's taking his sweet time getting people into the game, and they have to burn a timeout. Watch the total look of disgust on Ben's face.

And it happens a lot more than people want to admit.

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PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 11:47 am

Quote :
Arians had Ben dropping back and throwing 32 passes.

Look at the final drive of the first half. And the final drive of the game.

What did you want Arians to do? Run the ball there, not try to score either time, go in the locker room and quit?

Again, context. Arians came out trying to run, it didn't work.

And he still got blamed for doing what everyone wants anyway.

Watch

the

game

Don't read a stat sheet.

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PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 12:16 pm

@Crash wrote:
Quote :
Passing yards under BA - 18,060
Passing yards under Haley - 16,416

And like I just told KR.  Total yards without context means squat.  You are actually DEGRADING Ben's pre-Haley work by not taking into account when they had games well in hand and stopped throwing the ball. You are also ignoring when they were woefully behind with Haley and Ben piled up garbage time stats.  The 2012 Chargers game, and the 2014 Saints game are prime examples.  

Quote :
And just a side 'FACT' for you, that under Haley, Ben had 2 of the single greatest games in back to back weeks passing for 12td passes and almost 1000 yards.

And then they ended the season with 20 points or LESS on OFFENSE, in six of their last eight games.  And one of the games they didn't? He threw two meaningless scrap time TD's against the Saints in a 4th quarter with no chance to win.

Pretty sad when all people can come up with are TWO GAMES for Ben with Haley, while ignoring the overall work.  

His overall body of work with Haley is vastly superior to what it was with Arians.

I haven't missed a single Ben game in 12 seasons going on 13.
if you want to talk about 'garbage time' yards look no further than the 2 teams you mention in San Diego and the Saints both of those guys are perennial garbage time sluts.
Brees plays in the worst division in football and goes maybe 9-7 or 7-9 with the exception of 2009
Rivers the last 5 years has done the following 8-8, 9-7, 9-7 (playoffs), 7-9 and 4-12

The fact is Ben is FAR more efficient under Haley than he ever was under Arians.
I mean for arguments sake lets say Ben maintained his 328 passing yards per game last year and didn't miss the 4.5 games, his passing yards are 2nd all time with 5,376 (roughly). With the outside chance he even breaks the reacord.

And by quoting 2 games out of the 53 to date he's started under Haley that's 1.03% that he's really had game throwing 'meaningless' yards.

I'll be the first to tell you that stats are fantastic to look at but ultimately mean nothing unless you win.

But you're pretty funny there bud I'm enoying this :)
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PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 1:46 pm

Quote :
f you want to talk about 'garbage time' yards look no further than the 2 teams you mention in San Diego and the Saints both of those guys are perennial garbage time sluts.

Absolutely.  And that's what Ben is turning into with Haley.  

Quote :
And by quoting 2 games out of the 53 to date he's started under Haley that's 1.03% that he's really had game throwing 'meaningless' yards.

That's just the two off the top of my head I always reference.  He's thrown eleven 4th quarter TD's in garbage time in lopsided losses in four years with Haley.

He thew SEVEN TOTAL, in the first EIGHT YEARS, without him.

I'll give you another example, read this below:  

January 2011:

Big Ben not given same recognition as other QBs

By Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports


PITTSBURGH – Ben Roethlisberger and Terry Bradshaw seem destined to suffer the same fate.

No matter how many Super Bowls they win, they’ll never get respect for being central to that success.

Call it the Steeler Syndrome.

“When you talk about the Steelers, it’s always about the defense, it’s never about Ben,” said Trent Dilfer, who helped the Baltimore Rats win the Super Bowl in the 2000 season and now works as an analyst with ESPN. “To me, there are five truly great quarterbacks in the league right now: Tom Brady(notes), Peyton Manning(notes), Ben, Drew Brees(notes) and Philip Rivers(notes). Aaron Rodgers(notes) is getting there, but he doesn’t have the championship pelts or, in Rivers’ case, some pretty impressive playoff performances in conference championship games.

“You can take those five and put them in any order you want one thru five and it doesn’t matter. I wouldn’t call anyone crazy no matter what order you put those guys in. You can justify Tom being No. 1, Peyton No. 2 and Ben No. 3. You can justify Peyton being No. 1. You can justify Ben being No. 1, in my opinion. But, for whatever reasons, Ben doesn’t get as much respect as the others.”

Said another former signal caller turned analyst, Rich Gannon: “It’s like when Bradshaw was the Steelers quarterback and people didn’t think of him as one of the truly elite. You talk about Ben and people don’t give him his due, but then you look at some of the numbers and they’re amazing. Then you consider that he has two Super Bowl wins already and getting close to maybe getting a third and you say, ‘Man, there’s something pretty special going on here.’ ”

Yet both men notice the same thing that happens whenever any member of the media dares to compare Roethlisberger with Brady or Manning. The emails or calls pour in with criticism about how no one in their right mind would ever dare to really think that Roethlisberger is as good as those other guys. Any appreciation of Roethlisberger on that level is almost seen as heresy.

Dilfer and Gannon isolated a number of reasons why Roethlisberger, in particular, doesn’t get the same level of respect as other top passers.

The Fantasy Football Effect

The growth in fantasy football has changed the perception of what is a great quarterback.
Rather than being about how effective a quarterback can be in a given offensive system (and in concert with the way a team plays defense), the measurable factors are simply yards, touchdowns and all the other numbers that go with individual performance. From that perspective, Roethlisberger isn’t bad, but he’s not in Manning, Brady, Brees or Rivers’ territory. Likewise, he’s not as explosive as Rodgers or Michael Vick(notes).

“It’s absolutely fantasy football driven,” Dilfer said. “He’s not the fantasy football juggernaut like Peyton, Tom, Philip or Drew or even Aaron. A lot of the perception about quarterbacks now is fantasy driven. There’s no question in my mind from having worked in the media side for awhile now.”

In seven years, Roethlisberger has thrown more than 18 touchdowns in a season only twice, averaged more than 30 throws a game only three times and topped 4,000 yards in a season only once. Conversely, when it comes to statistics that actually may be a little more indicative of team success, Roethlisberger has put up some amazing numbers. He has averaged 8.0 yards per pass attempt for his career and 8.5 yards over the past two seasons.

Anything over 7.5 yards per attempt is in championship range.


Likewise, Roethlisberger’s touchdown-to-interception ratio in recent years has been mostly excellent. In three of the past four years, Roethlisberger has at least a 2-to-1 ratio, if not at or near 3-to-1.

“You break down the numbers and some of the things like that are just amazing,” Gannon said. “Yards per attempt, his rating … I mean, he had five interceptions this season. With the way he plays, the way he really pushes to get the big play downfield, to do that and not throw more interceptions is just incredible.”

On top of all that, there is the most important stat: Roethlisberger is 9-2 in the playoffs. That’s the second-best record in NFL postseason history behind Bart Starr at 9-1.

“If you’re talking about playing within the system that a team wants and doing what works for your team, Ben is pretty amazing,” Gannon said. “They don’t really block that well for him and they know it, but they call plays knowing that he’s going to get hit and he still executes what they’re trying to do. Like I said, that’s really amazing.”

Roethlisberger is unconventional

To put this another way, Roethlisberger doesn’t play pretty football. Other passers like Manning, Brady and Brees have perfected the art of throwing on time and running their offenses with great precision, executing plays the way they are drawn on the blackboard … or the way so many fans drew up plays on paper or in the dirt when they were kids.

“Ben doesn’t play the way your dad said a quarterback should play,” Dilfer said.

Instead, Roethlisberger looks like the guy in high school who switched from tight end to quarterback after the starter got hurt. He sort of looks like he knows the plays and is winging it because he’s big enough to take a few hits. The expression “by design” doesn’t exist in the Roethlisberger playbook.

“He’s running around, throwing guys off of him, buying time and waiting for something to happen downfield,” Gannon said. “He has the greatest left arm I’ve ever seen. He’s holding the ball in his right arm, waiting to throw and just tossing these 300-pound linemen away with his left arm.”

Dilfer said that, like many fans and passing observers, he didn’t put Roethlisberger on the same pedestal as other quarterbacks until he studied Roethlisberger very carefully.

“I watched 20 of his games. I took two days and watched him really play, studied what they were trying to do and really came away understanding how great this guy is,” Dilfer said. “I appreciate what he does now. He takes poise to a whole different level. By poise, I mean that we all know what it’s like to stare down a pass rusher and deliver the ball. I get that. But with him, you have a defensive lineman dragging you down and he’s still reading coverage. It’s unreal.

“The really good quarterbacks, they know they’re going to get hit. They know there’s going to be pain, but it’s not the pain they’re afraid of. It’s the consequences of getting hit, what might happen, whether you fumble or throw an interception. … With the really great quarterbacks, there is zero fear of failure. They are 100 percent dialed in on success, whatever the next great thing that can happen. The next play is an opportunity for greatness. Dude, this guy can take six sacks or whatever it was against Baltimore and he’s still holding the ball even longer at the end of the game, waiting for the next big play.”

Off-field issues

The obvious detraction from Roethlisberger’s image has been the off-field issues that plagued him in the previous two offseasons. Before the 2009 season, a lawsuit was filed in civil court in Nevada alleging sexual assault. In 2010, Roethlisberger was investigated in a separate incident in Georgia for sexual assault.

Although no charges were ever filed in the latter case, Roethlisberger was eventually suspended by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, missing the first four games of this season.

“Obviously, people talk about that stuff with him and it takes away from what they think of him as a player,” Gannon said.

Fair or not, that’s simply reality. For many people, Roethlisberger isn’t judged solely by numbers or playing style or how many titles he wins, he is judged for his actions both on and off the field.

“It has to have an effect,” Gannon said. “Me, I just look at him as a football player. As a football player, he’s great. There’s no question, he’s truly great.”
__________________________

And here's the fun part, two years earlier I got into an email exchange with a writer who wouldn't give Ben his due, was slobbering all over Brady and Manning and dismissing Ben's achievements as a player.

The writer's name?  The same Jason Cole who wrote the article above.  

And there he was, two years later (and before Todd Haley ever coached Ben), doing a complete 180.
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El-Gonzo Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 1:58 pm

@Crash wrote:


But watch a game,


Son, I've been a Steeler fan for 37 years and I've watched a lot of games. You implying that I need to watch a game is laughable, as are many of your one sided and jaded opinions.

Have you ever been part of putting together a gameplan at any level or age group of organized football? Have you ever called a game as a coordinator or been a position coach at any level of football?? You make assumptions that coordinators have to start a game one way and finish another that you suggest, but I am curious to know if you have ever had the clipboard in your hands to understand what happens during a game and the decisions that are made?
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El-Gonzo Jackson

El-Gonzo Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 2:12 pm

Its not the sacks, its the hits. Kind of like this one. 5 step drop and double move from your own end zone? Again, I'm happy this OC is no longer here trying to show everybody how much of a genius he is.

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PostSubject: Re: Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers?   Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 2:40 pm

@El-Gonzo Jackson wrote:
Its not the sacks, its the hits.  Kind of like this one.  5 step drop and double move from your own end zone?  Again, I'm happy this OC is no longer here trying to show everybody how much of a genius he is.


Yeah I miss going to Super Bowls.  

Enjoy your fantasy football championships.  Enjoy watching 330 pound offensive linemen running pass patterns with Todd Haley too.  

Quote :
Son, I've been a Steeler fan for 37 years and I've watched a lot of games.

How many games do you have right now of Ben's career at your disposal?  

I have every game this team has played since 1995.  Do you?
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Who’s better since parting ways? Mike Wallace or The Steelers? - Page 2 Empty
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