Steelers @ Raiders Gameday Thread

You guys will rue the day you ask for McCarthy if you get him.

IF Tomlin is let go (a big IF, the Steelers don't fire coaches with no losing seasons), the smart move would be to get the next up and coming young coach - the next McVey. Think, Lincoln Riley.

McCarthy is over the hill. Ben would walk all over him just like Rodgers was doing.

Any coach not named Munchak needs replaced.

@jak341 wrote:

Tim Benz airs his grievances.

https://triblive.com/sports/columnists/timbenz/breakfastwithbenz/14389538-74/tim-benz-an-airing-of-grievances-after-ugly-steelers-loss-in-oakland

Gene Collier also telling it like it is.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/gene-collier/2018/12/09/Steelers-Oakland-Raiders-coach-Mike-Tomlin-Gene-Collier-Ben-Roethlisberger-NFL/stories/201812100089

Thanks for posting. Interesting fact from the first article:

Quote :

The Black and Gold probably won't make the playoffs, folks. They'll likely lose to the Patriots* and Saints. They'll probab ... — OK, maybe — beat the Bengals. That's 8-7-1.

If the Ravens finish at least 9-7, by beating the Browns and Bucs while losing to the Chargers, that'll give Baltimore the AFC North. And the Steelers will most assuredly miss out on a wild-card spot with that record, too.

That would be the sixth time in the 18 years since Heinz Field opened that the Steelers would miss the playoffs. Of those six years, all but one would include a loss to a sub-.500 Raiders team.

nine vegetable wrote:

You guys will rue the day you ask for McCarthy if you get him.

IF Tomlin is let go (a big IF, the Steelers don't fire coaches with no losing seasons), the smart move would be to get the next up and coming young coach - the next McVey.  Think, Lincoln Riley.  

McCarthy is over the hill.  Ben would walk all over him just like Rodgers was doing.

Honestly I don't think Ben will not be here next year.I think he retires after this season and if he doesn't I think we see a Ben we'd rather not. You think McCarthy is over the hill? I just think he needs a better supporting staff, give up the play calling. What do you think about Fangio?

@Mach1 wrote:

Any coach not named Munchak needs replaced.

Are you serious. Ben was the most sacked QB in the league before he got here. We've had injuries and could have played better lately but I don't see Munchak as the problem.

@solardave wrote:

@Mach1 wrote:

Any coach not named Munchak needs replaced.

Are you serious. Ben was the most sacked QB in the league before he got here. We've had injuries and could have played better lately but I don't see Munchak as the problem.

No he's the only one we keep.

@Mach1 wrote:

@solardave wrote:

@Mach1 wrote:

Any coach not named Munchak needs replaced.

Are you serious. Ben was the most sacked QB in the league before he got here. We've had injuries and could have played better lately but I don't see Munchak as the problem.

No he's the only one we keep.

My bad I read that wrong. I misread it any coach NAMED Munchak.

might be a good time to look for an up and coming Player Personal guy to if your going to replace the headcoach.

imo Steelers need to go back drafting the football / athletic players instead of the athletic / football players they've been drafting.

Steelers will be in great 2019 salary cap shape so all is not lost but some changes need to be made.

Tomlin has been getting hammered for not putting Ben in sooner. I've got issues with Tomlin, but not putting Ben in sooner isn't one of them.

Sure, on hindsight, we probably would have won if Ben went in at least a few series earlier. But here's my question ... what would most of us be saying now if if Ben went in right after coming out of the locker room, took a big hit, worsened the injury, and then had to miss the Patriots* game and possibly the Saints game? My guess is we'd be crucifying Tomlin for putting an injured Ben in a situation to worsen the injury, with a lead against a 2-10 team.

@Wallace108 wrote:

Tomlin has been getting hammered for not putting Ben in sooner. I've got issues with Tomlin, but not putting Ben in sooner isn't one of them.

Sure, on hindsight, we probably would have won if Ben went in at least a few series earlier. But here's my question ... what would most of us be saying now if if Ben went in right after coming out of the locker room, took a big hit, worsened the injury, and then had to miss the Patriots** game and possibly the Saints game? My guess is we'd be crucifying Tomlin for putting an injured Ben in a situation to worsen the injury, with a lead against a 2-10 team.

You're right. Ben not being in a few series earlier is just a system. There are many causes to this team underachieving. If our defense could hold them. If we knew we had that defense because they convinced us by consistently stopping most every team we played. We wouldn't be talking about Ben not being in there. I think this is the major problem. Straighten out the defense and we find out what is not working with the offense. Likes Ben's accuracy problems this year.

Oh yeah. Wave Boswell at seasons end. No actually bring him back next year to try to win a spot back but bring in legitimate competition.

@Wallace108 wrote:

Tomlin has been getting hammered for not putting Ben in sooner. I've got issues with Tomlin, but not putting Ben in sooner isn't one of them.

Sure, on hindsight, we probably would have won if Ben went in at least a few series earlier. But here's my question ... what would most of us be saying now if if Ben went in right after coming out of the locker room, took a big hit, worsened the injury, and then had to miss the Patriots** game and possibly the Saints game? My guess is we'd be crucifying Tomlin for putting an injured Ben in a situation to worsen the injury, with a lead against a 2-10 team.

I disagree Wally. During the period where Ben could have come back in, Dobbs turned the ball over twice. Once within scoring position. That, a shit secondary, and Boswell's infuriating collapse this year were the biggest proponents of this loss.

It's a lost season I'm sorry to say. Call me bitter if you want to, but losing out looks like the best option in order to gut this coaching staff and bring in fresh talent through management and the draft.

McCarthy over the hill?? The dude isn't suiting up out there, he is a viable coach and I didn't see him week in and week out making half the foolish errors that Tomlin makes on the regular. He just doesn't have the linguistics that Tomlin has at pressors. THAT does not make you a good coach, just a good bullshitter...

@Drizztbob wrote:

@Wallace108 wrote:

Tomlin has been getting hammered for not putting Ben in sooner. I've got issues with Tomlin, but not putting Ben in sooner isn't one of them.

Sure, on hindsight, we probably would have won if Ben went in at least a few series earlier. But here's my question ... what would most of us be saying now if if Ben went in right after coming out of the locker room, took a big hit, worsened the injury, and then had to miss the Patriots*** game and possibly the Saints game? My guess is we'd be crucifying Tomlin for putting an injured Ben in a situation to worsen the injury, with a lead against a 2-10 team.

I disagree Wally.  During the period where Ben could have come back in, Dobbs turned the ball over twice.  Once within scoring position.  That, a shit secondary, and Boswell's infuriating collapse this year were the biggest proponents of this loss.

It's a lost season I'm sorry to say.  Call me bitter if you want to, but losing out looks like the best option in order to gut this coaching staff and bring in fresh talent through management and the draft.

McCarthy over the hill??  The dude isn't suiting up out there, he is a viable coach and I didn't see him week in and week out making half the foolish errors that Tomlin makes on the regular.  He just doesn't have the linguistics that Tomlin has at pressors.  THAT does not make you a good coach, just a good bullshitter...    

I think there are merits to what Wallace is saying because if he were hurt worse we'd be upset at that coaching call too. But, I think it's easier to see the side that Ben should have been in there sooner simply because he ended the game fine and his presence likely makes this a win.

As Drizztbob says, though, I don't know it matters a whole lot at this point because it does seem a lost season. I can't see a 3 game win streak starting this weekend, or at least 2 more wins, and without one or the other there isn't a lot of hope. Even so, if this staff were to get into the playoffs it would just be another coaching debacle.

@Drizztbob wrote:

@Wallace108 wrote:

Tomlin has been getting hammered for not putting Ben in sooner. I've got issues with Tomlin, but not putting Ben in sooner isn't one of them.

Sure, on hindsight, we probably would have won if Ben went in at least a few series earlier. But here's my question ... what would most of us be saying now if if Ben went in right after coming out of the locker room, took a big hit, worsened the injury, and then had to miss the Patriots*** game and possibly the Saints game? My guess is we'd be crucifying Tomlin for putting an injured Ben in a situation to worsen the injury, with a lead against a 2-10 team.

I disagree Wally.  During the period where Ben could have come back in, Dobbs turned the ball over twice.  Once within scoring position.  That, a shit secondary, and Boswell's infuriating collapse this year were the biggest proponents of this loss.

It's a lost season I'm sorry to say.  Call me bitter if you want to, but losing out looks like the best option in order to gut this coaching staff and bring in fresh talent through management and the draft.

McCarthy over the hill??  The dude isn't suiting up out there, he is a viable coach and I didn't see him week in and week out making half the foolish errors that Tomlin makes on the regular.  He just doesn't have the linguistics that Tomlin has at pressors.  THAT does not make you a good coach, just a good bullshitter...    

This is where you're dead wrong.

McCarthy's lack of leadership this season at Green Bay is what makes him over the hill. A leader doesn't let the QB overrule him. A leader would've pulled him immediately and sent a message.

And the excuses people make for McCarthy not winning this year doesn't hold up, especially if one is considering replacing Tomlin. In other words, if you're going to blame the head coach, then blame the head coach.

nine vegetable wrote:

@Drizztbob wrote:

@Wallace108 wrote:

Tomlin has been getting hammered for not putting Ben in sooner. I've got issues with Tomlin, but not putting Ben in sooner isn't one of them.

Sure, on hindsight, we probably would have won if Ben went in at least a few series earlier. But here's my question ... what would most of us be saying now if if Ben went in right after coming out of the locker room, took a big hit, worsened the injury, and then had to miss the Patriots**** game and possibly the Saints game? My guess is we'd be crucifying Tomlin for putting an injured Ben in a situation to worsen the injury, with a lead against a 2-10 team.

I disagree Wally.  During the period where Ben could have come back in, Dobbs turned the ball over twice.  Once within scoring position.  That, a shit secondary, and Boswell's infuriating collapse this year were the biggest proponents of this loss.

It's a lost season I'm sorry to say.  Call me bitter if you want to, but losing out looks like the best option in order to gut this coaching staff and bring in fresh talent through management and the draft.

McCarthy over the hill??  The dude isn't suiting up out there, he is a viable coach and I didn't see him week in and week out making half the foolish errors that Tomlin makes on the regular.  He just doesn't have the linguistics that Tomlin has at pressors.  THAT does not make you a good coach, just a good bullshitter...    

This is where you're dead wrong.

McCarthy's lack of leadership this season at Green Bay is what makes him over the hill.  A leader doesn't let the QB overrule him.  A leader would've pulled him immediately and sent a message.  

And the excuses people make for McCarthy not winning this year doesn't hold up, especially if one is considering replacing Tomlin.  In other words, if you're going to blame the head coach, then blame the head coach.

I really don't think there is going to be a head coaching change even if the Steelers end the season with 3 losses. It's just not how the Rooneys operate. If there would be a change their style seems to be go with someone who is green and inexperienced as Cowher and Tomlin were. That being said I do remember...late 90's I think, where it seemd they were going to fire Cowher, so you never know.

I think coordinators are already on the fence, maybe 2 losses in last 3 gets a change, or changes there. My understanding from the writers chats at Pitts Post Gazette is that Tomlin is heavily into the defensive calling so you have to wonder what changing the defensive coordinator would mean for him.

@LambertWardSteel wrote:

nine vegetable wrote:

@Drizztbob wrote:

@Wallace108 wrote:

Tomlin has been getting hammered for not putting Ben in sooner. I've got issues with Tomlin, but not putting Ben in sooner isn't one of them.

Sure, on hindsight, we probably would have won if Ben went in at least a few series earlier. But here's my question ... what would most of us be saying now if if Ben went in right after coming out of the locker room, took a big hit, worsened the injury, and then had to miss the Patriots****** game and possibly the Saints game? My guess is we'd be crucifying Tomlin for putting an injured Ben in a situation to worsen the injury, with a lead against a 2-10 team.

I disagree Wally.  During the period where Ben could have come back in, Dobbs turned the ball over twice.  Once within scoring position.  That, a shit secondary, and Boswell's infuriating collapse this year were the biggest proponents of this loss.

It's a lost season I'm sorry to say.  Call me bitter if you want to, but losing out looks like the best option in order to gut this coaching staff and bring in fresh talent through management and the draft.

McCarthy over the hill??  The dude isn't suiting up out there, he is a viable coach and I didn't see him week in and week out making half the foolish errors that Tomlin makes on the regular.  He just doesn't have the linguistics that Tomlin has at pressors.  THAT does not make you a good coach, just a good bullshitter...    

This is where you're dead wrong.

McCarthy's lack of leadership this season at Green Bay is what makes him over the hill.  A leader doesn't let the QB overrule him.  A leader would've pulled him immediately and sent a message.  

And the excuses people make for McCarthy not winning this year doesn't hold up, especially if one is considering replacing Tomlin.  In other words, if you're going to blame the head coach, then blame the head coach.

I really don't think there is going to be a head coaching change even if the Steelers end the season with 3 losses. It's just not how the Rooneys operate. If there would be a change their style seems to be go with someone who is green and inexperienced as Cowher and Tomlin were. That being said I do remember...late 90's I think, where it seemd they were going to fire Cowher, so you never know.

I think coordinators are already on the fence, maybe 2 losses in last 3 gets a change, or changes there. My understanding from the writers chats at Pitts Post Gazette is that Tomlin is heavily into the defensive calling so you have to wonder what changing the defensive coordinator would mean for him.

A change at dc probably wouldn't do much. I doubt Tomlin could keep out of it and it'd be right back to the same garbage. Tomlin took over for Butler last year and somehow Butler is the one who retained "his job" this year.

@Drizztbob wrote:

I disagree Wally.  During the period where Ben could have come back in, Dobbs turned the ball over twice. 

Protecting Ben with the Patriots*** and Saints coming up wasn't a bad decision. And I don't think the problem was with Dobbs. It was with the playcalling. They handcuffed him. And that falls on coaching. They decided to enter the season with 2 backups who had a combined 0 snaps. And when they needed Dobbs, they were afraid to let him play and went conservative. Going with 2 inexperienced QBs wasn't a bad decision. But not allowing Dobbs to get more snaps during the season was a bad decision. There were opportunities. The Panthers game comes to mind. But I guess padding Ben's stats was more important than allowing the inexperienced backup to get some experience.

the Steelers are blaming a x-ray machine this week.