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Master_Of_Puppets

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PostSubject: How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game   How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game EmptyWed Dec 09, 2020 9:51 pm

nice breakdown with examples..of course many of us have been saying for several weeks, they have been going to this "well" to often. other teams study film too Fichtner.  How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game 1505004552 change shit up man  How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game 2768454789 ....they aren't just one dimensional , they are one dimensional within that one dimension ?  Shocked ... How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game 2829330259 ,,,does that make sense ?

this reminds me of a local rock band which i was friends with all the band members. they played every friday and saturday night. really good cover band with talented musicians who did justice to the songs they covered. they drew a big crowd every time they played for several months. as time went on the crowds kept getting smaller and smaller.
the reason the audience was diminishing is because they played the same songs in the same order for months on end and people were just tired of the predictable repetitions. every bar already has a jukebox.
the moral of the story is you need to constantly add new shit to your repertoire , because becoming too predictable will lead to failure eventually.

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effyou515

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PostSubject: Re: How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game   How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game EmptyWed Dec 09, 2020 11:27 pm

football 101 when defenses start jumping on the short passing double move pattern and take it deep. no in game adjustments when defenses start tight coverage on the short pass routes.


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Master_Of_Puppets

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PostSubject: Re: How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game   How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game EmptyWed Dec 09, 2020 11:42 pm

@effyou515 wrote:
football 101 when defenses start jumping on the short passing double move pattern and take it deep. no in game adjustments when defenses start tight coverage on the short pass routes.

right ? i mean common sense. pump fakes and double moves. mix up the formations and motions. add some new routes. dig up some of the old playbooks from haley and arians. change up personnel groups. i mean they act like Ben is going to shatter in to a million pieces if he gets hit a few times. Shocked
i used to bitch and moan about the over use of bubble screens that usually resulted in -2 to 2 yard gains . remember they called them an extention of the run game too ? ...these quick slants are the new bubble screens.
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stlrtruck

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PostSubject: Re: How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game   How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game EmptyThu Dec 10, 2020 8:00 am

It really started with the Cowboys game, but we were able to overcome.
The ravens added a new dimension to it, built on it, and we were able to overcome.
The redskins had enough time to plan for it, keep it in front of them, and we couldn't overcome.

It's time this team figure some shite out so we don't have the same issue for the rest of the season.

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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game   How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game EmptyThu Dec 10, 2020 10:16 am

I'm not sure how much is game planning and how much is Ben. There have been plays when he had time to find an open guy and he's missed it because he let it go too early. I know this line can get off of their heels and drive people back. Who was it that said they're pass blocking when a run is called. I'm seeing them stagnant at the line either being driven back or held in place with no hole for the RB. We had been pulling the guards and having success and what are we paying Derrick Watt for? He's healthy now right? What is really hurting us right now are dropped balls. Everyone is dropping them but DJ and Ebron are the biggest offenders. Maybe we see more Ray Ray and JW against the Bills. Tomlin said he was going to play Wrs that know the responsibility of catching the ball.
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PostSubject: Re: How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game   How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game EmptyThu Dec 10, 2020 10:32 am

I agree that defenses are trying to take away the underneath, quick passes on obvious short distance plays. But I disagree with the analysis of this video. The first play they show, the edge rusher is attempting to blow up a bubble screen (even though the Steelers don't run a bubble screen on the play). So the edge rusher is now in a passing lane for the short throw. This play is a just a luck play for the Bengals.

On the other plays, yes, the OLBs are dropping into the slant lanes to take away those throws. More than anything, Ben needs to see the drop of the OLBs and go elsewhere. If he pump fakes, he most likely has a receiver open down field (because the safeties are moving when his arm comes forward ... it's right there on tape).

That play at the end of the Washington game is not an example of teams keying on the short passing game and taking it away. The edge rusher is rushing and does exactly what he's been taught since high school ... when you see the QB begin to throw and you're not going to sack him, stick your hands up. Good play by them and bad luck for Ben. It is what it is.

Here's my take. Every team employs the quick passing game. Defenses are seeing it every week, not just against the Steelers. So they are playing more coverage to take away those short passing lanes (usually the quick slant). Just because Sweat says it after the game and they won, Steelers fans and media are sounding the alarm. I'm not buying it. If anything, I think Ben and his offensive coaches should have a route on every one of these plays that should be open if Ben pump-fakes the slant. Every one of those clips in that video shows 3 or less rushers. Ben will have time ... he has to know he can hold the ball a half second longer for the pump fake. I'm not a believer that this is a major issue for the Steelers and their sky isn't falling.

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Master_Of_Puppets

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PostSubject: Re: How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game   How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game EmptyThu Dec 10, 2020 5:30 pm

@solardave wrote:
I'm not sure how much is game planning and how much is Ben. There have been plays when he had time to find an open guy and he's missed it because he let it go too early. I know this line can get off of their heels and drive people back. Who was it that said they're pass blocking when a run is called. I'm seeing them stagnant at the line either being driven back or held in place with no hole for the RB. We had been pulling the guards and having success and what are we paying Derrick Watt for? He's healthy now right? What is really hurting us right now are dropped balls. Everyone is dropping them but DJ and Ebron are the biggest offenders. Maybe we see more Ray Ray and JW against the Bills. Tomlin said he was going to play Wrs that know the responsibility of catching the ball.

How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game 2000130356 me me me ... How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game 1797695198 if you watch the run plays that get blown up you will see the entire defensive front at least a yard deep on the offensive side of the LOS.
on my high school team if we (i played right guard) played just a fraction that bad we would have spent the entire next practice pushing the sled around. that never actually happened , but just looking sub standard in coaches eyes in practice earned us sled time ... No

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effyou515

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PostSubject: Re: How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game   How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game EmptyFri Dec 11, 2020 12:00 am

@kirklandrules wrote:
I agree that defenses are trying to take away the underneath, quick passes on obvious short distance plays. But I disagree with the analysis of this video. The first play they show, the edge rusher is attempting to blow up a bubble screen (even though the Steelers don't run a bubble screen on the play). So the edge rusher is now in a passing lane for the short throw. This play is a just a luck play for the Bengals.

On the other plays, yes, the OLBs are dropping into the slant lanes to take away those throws. More than anything, Ben needs to see the drop of the OLBs and go elsewhere. If he pump fakes, he most likely has a receiver open down field (because the safeties are moving when his arm comes forward ... it's right there on tape).

That play at the end of the Washington game is not an example of teams keying on the short passing game and taking it away. The edge rusher is rushing and does exactly what he's been taught since high school ... when you see the QB begin to throw and you're not going to sack him, stick your hands up. Good play by them and bad luck for Ben. It is what it is.

Here's my take. Every team employs the quick passing game. Defenses are seeing it every week, not just against the Steelers. So they are playing more coverage to take away those short passing lanes (usually the quick slant). Just because Sweat says it after the game and they won, Steelers fans and media are sounding the alarm. I'm not buying it. If anything, I think Ben and his offensive coaches should have a route on every one of these plays that should be open if Ben pump-fakes the slant. Every one of those clips in that video shows 3 or less rushers. Ben will have time ... he has to know he can hold the ball a half second longer for the pump fake. I'm not a believer that this is a major issue for the Steelers and their sky isn't falling.

and if the don't LBs respect your running game the stay back in the passing lanes. some game the Steelers have a good mix of inside the numbers and outside the numbers short / medium pass patterns. l don't know if Ben's bad knee anything to do with it what l saw in the second half (didn't see the first half) the offense was wearing out the in pass patterns. l'd run Claypool in motion across the formation before the snap about every play to see how the double team on him is going.

hoping guard center tackle fall to the Steelers in this coming draft Banner's injury is haunting o-line was liking Dotson and Banners guard / tackle combo the o-line still needs young talent age is catching up.

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PostSubject: Re: How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game   How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game EmptyFri Dec 11, 2020 8:25 am

@effyou515 wrote:
@kirklandrules wrote:
I agree that defenses are trying to take away the underneath, quick passes on obvious short distance plays. But I disagree with the analysis of this video. The first play they show, the edge rusher is attempting to blow up a bubble screen (even though the Steelers don't run a bubble screen on the play). So the edge rusher is now in a passing lane for the short throw. This play is a just a luck play for the Bengals.

On the other plays, yes, the OLBs are dropping into the slant lanes to take away those throws. More than anything, Ben needs to see the drop of the OLBs and go elsewhere. If he pump fakes, he most likely has a receiver open down field (because the safeties are moving when his arm comes forward ... it's right there on tape).

That play at the end of the Washington game is not an example of teams keying on the short passing game and taking it away. The edge rusher is rushing and does exactly what he's been taught since high school ... when you see the QB begin to throw and you're not going to sack him, stick your hands up. Good play by them and bad luck for Ben. It is what it is.

Here's my take. Every team employs the quick passing game. Defenses are seeing it every week, not just against the Steelers. So they are playing more coverage to take away those short passing lanes (usually the quick slant). Just because Sweat says it after the game and they won, Steelers fans and media are sounding the alarm. I'm not buying it. If anything, I think Ben and his offensive coaches should have a route on every one of these plays that should be open if Ben pump-fakes the slant. Every one of those clips in that video shows 3 or less rushers. Ben will have time ... he has to know he can hold the ball a half second longer for the pump fake. I'm not a believer that this is a major issue for the Steelers and their sky isn't falling.

and if the don't LBs respect your running game the stay back in the passing lanes. some game the Steelers have a good mix of inside the numbers and outside the numbers short / medium pass patterns. l don't know if Ben's bad knee anything to do with it what l saw in the second half (didn't see the first half) the offense was wearing out the in pass patterns. l'd run Claypool in motion across the formation before the snap about every play to see how the double team on him is going.

hoping guard center tackle fall to the Steelers in this coming draft Banner's injury is haunting o-line was liking Dotson and Banners guard / tackle combo the o-line still needs young talent age is catching up.

Agree with that Eff. Yes, if they ran the ball better, the OLBs wouldn't be able to drop as much. I think an entire book could be written on this offense and what they should or shouldn't do. I take Tomlin at his word when he essentially said the gameplan against Washington was to throw the ball. 8 dropped passes and the QB having an off game doesn't provide the ingredients for a victory. I also don't think they've worked on the run game enough to have just handed the gameplan to Snell ... at least not against the Washington D-line.

So let's review what the Steelers had on their plate for the Washington game:

  • Shit schedule the prior two weeks that prevented consistent practices
  • Starting RB is out
  • Receivers drop 8 passes
  • QB has an off game
  • Missing starting CB to begin the game
  • Starting rookie OLB
  • Lost starting CB for the 2nd half
  • Lost the starting (who was really the backup) ILB for the 2nd half
  • Played without the starting kicker and had a kid with little NFL experience

But they lost because the league knows the Steelers like to throw the quick routes and now everyone is onto them? Sure.

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SteelerFreak58

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PostSubject: Re: How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game   How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game EmptySat Dec 12, 2020 1:47 pm

This is what happens when you have an old offensive line. They are not getting any push on running plays. If you watch the few running plays they try they are getting stuffed and stood up at the line or pushed backwards. Wouldn't matter who is running for the team. If the Oline can't open running lanes your not gonna do shit on the ground. Pouncey, Decastro, and Villanueva are just older and slower and 31+ for Oline is OLD in todays NFL.


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LambertWardSteel



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PostSubject: Re: How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game   How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game EmptySat Dec 12, 2020 2:55 pm

@kirklandrules wrote:
@effyou515 wrote:
@kirklandrules wrote:
I agree that defenses are trying to take away the underneath, quick passes on obvious short distance plays. But I disagree with the analysis of this video. The first play they show, the edge rusher is attempting to blow up a bubble screen (even though the Steelers don't run a bubble screen on the play). So the edge rusher is now in a passing lane for the short throw. This play is a just a luck play for the Bengals.

On the other plays, yes, the OLBs are dropping into the slant lanes to take away those throws. More than anything, Ben needs to see the drop of the OLBs and go elsewhere. If he pump fakes, he most likely has a receiver open down field (because the safeties are moving when his arm comes forward ... it's right there on tape).

That play at the end of the Washington game is not an example of teams keying on the short passing game and taking it away. The edge rusher is rushing and does exactly what he's been taught since high school ... when you see the QB begin to throw and you're not going to sack him, stick your hands up. Good play by them and bad luck for Ben. It is what it is.

Here's my take. Every team employs the quick passing game. Defenses are seeing it every week, not just against the Steelers. So they are playing more coverage to take away those short passing lanes (usually the quick slant). Just because Sweat says it after the game and they won, Steelers fans and media are sounding the alarm. I'm not buying it. If anything, I think Ben and his offensive coaches should have a route on every one of these plays that should be open if Ben pump-fakes the slant. Every one of those clips in that video shows 3 or less rushers. Ben will have time ... he has to know he can hold the ball a half second longer for the pump fake. I'm not a believer that this is a major issue for the Steelers and their sky isn't falling.

and if the don't LBs respect your running game the stay back in the passing lanes. some game the Steelers have a good mix of inside the numbers and outside the numbers short / medium pass patterns. l don't know if Ben's bad knee anything to do with it what l saw in the second half (didn't see the first half) the offense was wearing out the in pass patterns. l'd run Claypool in motion across the formation before the snap about every play to see how the double team on him is going.

hoping guard center tackle fall to the Steelers in this coming draft Banner's injury is haunting o-line was liking Dotson and Banners guard / tackle combo the o-line still needs young talent age is catching up.

Agree with that Eff. Yes, if they ran the ball better, the OLBs wouldn't be able to drop as much. I think an entire book could be written on this offense and what they should or shouldn't do. I take Tomlin at his word when he essentially said the gameplan against Washington was to throw the ball. 8 dropped passes and the QB having an off game doesn't provide the ingredients for a victory. I also don't think they've worked on the run game enough to have just handed the gameplan to Snell ... at least not against the Washington D-line.

So let's review what the Steelers had on their plate for the Washington game:

  • Shit schedule the prior two weeks that prevented consistent practices
  • Starting RB is out
  • Receivers drop 8 passes
  • QB has an off game
  • Missing starting CB to begin the game
  • Starting rookie OLB
  • Lost starting CB for the 2nd half
  • Lost the starting (who was really the backup) ILB for the 2nd half
  • Played without the starting kicker and had a kid with little NFL experience

But they lost because the league knows the Steelers like to throw the quick routes and now everyone is onto them? Sure.

This is a great post and puts things in perspective. I'm only following the Steelers closely but it does seem like for the season as a whole they really got the shortest end of the stick in all the NFL for being screwed by Covid issues of other teams. The drops by receivers seemed to really pop up Baltimore game, Ben had said after that game that it was hard to prepare for that game the way the rats kept getting the game day changed. Then they have Washington 5 days later.

We could have lost the first Baltimore game and Dallas, and did lose Washington over failure to get 1-2 yds on 4th down end of game. I understand maybe the OL isn't getting it done on running plays, but it just seems like a good RB should be able to create 1 yard. I thought on the one play at the goal line Snell would have scored but he seemed to jump to soon. It seems to me a lot of the running issues are with the backfield personnel and I'm really hoping to see a rebuild in the off season.

The D injuries are really troubling. i keep trying to stop myself from thinking how they'd be doing if Bush and Dupree were playing. This year has started me thinking back to the 1983 season. I just hope it doesn't go there.


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PostSubject: Re: How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game   How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game EmptySat Dec 12, 2020 3:53 pm

time to break out the inside and outside zone blocking, o-line men get in the way cause this o-line isn't going to over power anyone.

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PostSubject: Re: How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game   How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game EmptySat Dec 12, 2020 4:33 pm

Yeah as really as need to move from conservative to that over in the OL to trying to be daring!

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PostSubject: Re: How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game   How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game EmptyThu Dec 17, 2020 1:15 pm

Ben with some comforting words for Steelers Nation.

Ben on Steelers' offensive struggles: 'We've got time'
https://www.nfl.com/news/ben-roethlisberger-on-steelers-offensive-struggles-we-ve-got-time
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PostSubject: Re: How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game   How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game EmptyFri Dec 18, 2020 4:30 am

The most glaring issue with this offense to me is the complete and total lack of a run game. Ben shouldn't have to throw the ball 50 times a game. I guarantee the gameplan against Washington wasn't to have to throw the ball that many times. Our running backs haven't been effective but we've seen them be effective in the past with proper blocking. This offensive line unit does get somewhat of a break from me due to the injuries they've suffered and guys going on and off the COVID list. I get that. But the run blocking has been almost non-existent for weeks now. If you can't run the ball effectively you have to rely on the passing game and that makes you one dimensional. Ben can't seem to find his guys deep, so defenses know they're facing a QB that's going to be getting the ball out quickly with short to intermediate throws. Fact of the matter is, that makes things easier for them as they know what to expect. They don't have to take guys out of the box because we can't seem to be able to get over the top the past few weeks which means they can play with 8 men in the box and do that with consistency throughout the game.

You have to be able to A) hit them deep every once and awhile to force them to have to back off their coverage and B) you need to be able to run the ball effectively enough that you tire out their front 7, and keep them guessing at what the offense is going to do. The big uglies aren't having to work as hard because the run blocking is so abysmal and they practically live in our backfield, and they don't have to guess at what we're going to do because we're one dimensional. Look at all the batted balls as an example of how one-dimensional we truly are, these guys know we're getting the ball out so quick that they don't have time to hit home for sacks, so they are just clogging up the passing lanes and getting their hands up all the time.

The Cowboys came up with the blueprint as to how to defend what we're doing offensively, and every team since that game has come at us with the same philosophy. Stack the box, press the receivers, stuff the run, and the Steelers become totally one-dimensional.

They need to work on the running game, and they need to work on their deep passing game. There's no reason with guys like Juju, Washington, Johnson, and Claypool at our disposal that we shouldn't be able to take the top off any defense in this league. Ben needs to be more consistent in this regard and that worries me. He's either overthrown, or underthrown guys deep this season and I honestly feel like his deep ball accuracy is a shadow of what it once was. This could possibly be due to timing and just not having the level of chemistry with his current receivers that he's had with guys in the past, or it could be a physical decline due to age. I don't know, but I know the deep ball hasn't been a consistent thing for Ben this year. It also doesn't help when the receivers play like shit and drop the passes that Ben does put on the money, they need to be better and help out their QB.

I'm hoping these two losses wake them up, they finally have an adequate amount of time to rest, and they get to sharpen their tools against the worst opponent in our division. I expect them to look better this weekend.

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PostSubject: Re: How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game   How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game EmptyTue Dec 22, 2020 2:41 pm

The definition of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is?

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PostSubject: Re: How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game   How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game EmptyTue Dec 22, 2020 8:42 pm

Doug Whaley has a very simple reason for Ben. Father Time is going to claim another victim.

https://steelersdepot.com/2020/12/former-steelers-exec-doug-whaley-on-ben-roethlisberger-theres-only-a-few-things-that-are-undefeated-and-father-time-is-one-of-them/
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PostSubject: Re: How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game   How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game EmptyWed Dec 23, 2020 10:46 am

Father Time never loses..
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PostSubject: Re: How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game   How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game Empty

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How Defenses Are Adjusting To Ben Roethlisberger And The Steelers' Quick Pass Game
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