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 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves

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kirklandrules

kirklandrules

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyWed Feb 10, 2021 9:03 am

@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
@kirklandrules wrote:
@Great Randino wrote:
@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
@Great Randino wrote:
Love that.
what i dont understand is how he could be in practice or on the sidelines with fichtner and not say ... 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 512807920  Randy WTF ?...your offense is predictable and it sucks

Actually we would have no way of knowing what he may have told Fichtner in meetings and such.  But one must tread lightly when trying to tell their boss (at that time) what to do.

For all we know, he made suggestions that got ignored.

And what was Ben's role in that offensive scheme? We've heard for years that the playbook and game plans rely heavily on Ben's input. I still think back on that last regular season game against the Browns. Same offensive playbook, totally different looking offense ... Rudolph at QB was the only difference.
thats a fair question. i look back at 2 things. 1 ) how slow it took the offense to get going. what was it ? 1 scoring drive on opening drives the entire season ? obviously they are the "scripted" plays and we know who calls those. i put up the stats showing the points scored by quarter. 1st and 3rd quarters were just sad. what do those quarters have in common ? Ben getting marching orders from fichtner ?... 2 ) they generally moved the ball much better when they were off the script. ditched the game plan. hurry up offense.
obviously Ben was part of the problem. the difference between Ben and mason was who did and didnt hit the deep ball. Ben lost all deep ball cred. nobody was worried about him beating them deep. after mason hit that first big one clevland was like .. 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 2829330259 ...then he hit the second one and they were like ... affraid ..then the safties were like ... 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 1841364231  back up !!!

jim rome summed up Ben and the steelers pretty good after the bengals game.


All good points and questions. Ben works with his OC and QB coach to develop the opening drive scripts, it's not handed to him with a mandate to stick to the script. I haven't done the research, but hasn't opening drives been an issue for years? I thought we were shitting on Arians for the lack of opening drive scoring, then Haley, then Fichtner.  I'll take a second to point out that I'm not anti-Ben. IMO, he's not done or washed up and I hope he's able to turn it around next season. Also, I'm not pro-Fichtner. Honestly, I have no clue if he's good or bad and pointed to the extremely poor execution by the players as the reason I couldn't judge Fichtner's performace. The first 9 games of the season, the offense looked good, the players executed well and everyone was happy. The final stretch was littered with such poor play by the players, The Gipper couldn't talk them into a win.

@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
Yup Ben has been done for the last 3 or 4 years Steelers fans have just been so scared of another 1983 to 2003 repeat of QB hell they don't want to let Ben go... lol

He has been terrible for a while now but some fans put their Rose colored glasses on and make nice.

They won games this year because of the Defense in a lot of close games against some really garbage teams. When key defense members went down to injury and Ben had to win games it wasn't able to get done. The last 6 games of the season are more of what is to come if they keep him around for another year.

Oh and did anyone notice we have one of the toughest schedules in the NFL next season? Its gonna be a long season...

Have to disagree that the Steelers won because their defense and beat garbage teams. Yes, their defense was good and contributed, but the Steelers' offense put up points and was difficult for teams to stop. Were there games against bad teams that shouldn't have been as close as they were? Yes, but they did win those and in the past might have lost them. Something happened to this team once they got to that Ravens game at 10-0. Back then, I was blaming the Ravens for the dumpster fire they created with their COVID rescheduling, causing the Steelers to play 3 games in 12 days. It just seemed to knock this team off track and they never recovered ... and I don't know why. But it was that Ravens game onward that the players slumped.
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SteelerFreak58

SteelerFreak58

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyWed Feb 10, 2021 9:40 am

@kirklandrules wrote:
@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
@kirklandrules wrote:
@Great Randino wrote:
@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
@Great Randino wrote:
Love that.
what i dont understand is how he could be in practice or on the sidelines with fichtner and not say ... 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 512807920  Randy WTF ?...your offense is predictable and it sucks

Actually we would have no way of knowing what he may have told Fichtner in meetings and such.  But one must tread lightly when trying to tell their boss (at that time) what to do.

For all we know, he made suggestions that got ignored.

And what was Ben's role in that offensive scheme? We've heard for years that the playbook and game plans rely heavily on Ben's input. I still think back on that last regular season game against the Browns. Same offensive playbook, totally different looking offense ... Rudolph at QB was the only difference.
thats a fair question. i look back at 2 things. 1 ) how slow it took the offense to get going. what was it ? 1 scoring drive on opening drives the entire season ? obviously they are the "scripted" plays and we know who calls those. i put up the stats showing the points scored by quarter. 1st and 3rd quarters were just sad. what do those quarters have in common ? Ben getting marching orders from fichtner ?... 2 ) they generally moved the ball much better when they were off the script. ditched the game plan. hurry up offense.
obviously Ben was part of the problem. the difference between Ben and mason was who did and didnt hit the deep ball. Ben lost all deep ball cred. nobody was worried about him beating them deep. after mason hit that first big one clevland was like .. 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 2829330259 ...then he hit the second one and they were like ... affraid ..then the safties were like ... 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 1841364231  back up !!!

jim rome summed up Ben and the steelers pretty good after the bengals game.


All good points and questions. Ben works with his OC and QB coach to develop the opening drive scripts, it's not handed to him with a mandate to stick to the script. I haven't done the research, but hasn't opening drives been an issue for years? I thought we were shitting on Arians for the lack of opening drive scoring, then Haley, then Fichtner.  I'll take a second to point out that I'm not anti-Ben. IMO, he's not done or washed up and I hope he's able to turn it around next season. Also, I'm not pro-Fichtner. Honestly, I have no clue if he's good or bad and pointed to the extremely poor execution by the players as the reason I couldn't judge Fichtner's performace. The first 9 games of the season, the offense looked good, the players executed well and everyone was happy. The final stretch was littered with such poor play by the players, The Gipper couldn't talk them into a win.

@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
Yup Ben has been done for the last 3 or 4 years Steelers fans have just been so scared of another 1983 to 2003 repeat of QB hell they don't want to let Ben go... lol

He has been terrible for a while now but some fans put their Rose colored glasses on and make nice.

They won games this year because of the Defense in a lot of close games against some really garbage teams. When key defense members went down to injury and Ben had to win games it wasn't able to get done. The last 6 games of the season are more of what is to come if they keep him around for another year.

Oh and did anyone notice we have one of the toughest schedules in the NFL next season? Its gonna be a long season...

Have to disagree that the Steelers won because their defense and beat garbage teams. Yes, their defense was good and contributed, but the Steelers' offense put up points and was difficult for teams to stop. Were there games against bad teams that shouldn't have been as close as they were? Yes, but they did win those and in the past might have lost them. Something happened to this team once they got to that Ravens game at 10-0. Back then, I was blaming the Ravens for the dumpster fire they created with their COVID rescheduling, causing the Steelers to play 3 games in 12 days. It just seemed to knock this team off track and they never recovered ... and I don't know why. But it was that Ravens game onward that the players slumped.

None of that was on Bens lack of deep ball? None of that was on his accuracy as a passer or his lack of mobility in or out of the pocket? The dude is DONE many fans just don't want to admit it...
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kirklandrules

kirklandrules

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyWed Feb 10, 2021 10:24 am

@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
@kirklandrules wrote:

Have to disagree that the Steelers won because their defense and beat garbage teams. Yes, their defense was good and contributed, but the Steelers' offense put up points and was difficult for teams to stop. Were there games against bad teams that shouldn't have been as close as they were? Yes, but they did win those and in the past might have lost them. Something happened to this team once they got to that Ravens game at 10-0. Back then, I was blaming the Ravens for the dumpster fire they created with their COVID rescheduling, causing the Steelers to play 3 games in 12 days. It just seemed to knock this team off track and they never recovered ... and I don't know why. But it was that Ravens game onward that the players slumped.

None of that was on Bens lack of deep ball? None of that was on his accuracy as a passer or his lack of mobility in or out of the pocket? The dude is DONE many fans just don't want to admit it...

Absolutely Ben shares responsibility for that pitiful ending of the season and more than any other player.

But I don't think Ben's washed up because at 10-0 he was an MVP candidate with a ridiculous TD-to-INT ratio (on par with Rogers). His arm was fine as he easily threw deep balls and had plenty of heat on passes. I complained his mechanics were way off in the 2nd half of the season, something Bettis mentioned as well (not that he's an expert at the QB position ... but neither am I). The fall in the second half is something the entire organization shares responsibility for, from owners, to the coaches, to the players, and most of all ... Ben.
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Great Randino



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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyWed Feb 10, 2021 11:41 am

Interesting perspective that kind of got glossed over in the Super Bowl win, but Brady talked about how the bye week came just at the right time for the Bucs. They were struggling, barely over .500, then the bye week came, they got rested up, got their act together and went on a run.

Steelers were the only team in the NFL not to have a bye week. NFL really put the screws to them and I still think it made a difference.
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SteelerFreak58

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyWed Feb 10, 2021 1:15 pm

Nice article on Rudolph and a glimmer of what may come without Fitchner handcuffing him playing scared safe ball with a backup QB...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/platform/amp/2021/2/10/22269803/one-play-that-should-make-steelers-fans-optimistic-about-mason-rudolph-browns-ben-roethlisberger-nfl
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effyou515

effyou515

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyWed Feb 17, 2021 12:34 am

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2021/2/16/22282954/a-list-of-former-steelers-that-could-find-themselves-back-in-pittsburgh-james-finney-free-agency-nfl

A list of former Steelers that could find themselves back in Pittsburgh

Jesse James
B.J. Finney
Emmanuel Sanders
Kelvin Beachum

a few name if could be signed to team friendly contracts.

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coach she's to big and strong we can't stop her. coach "hit her in the dick" 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 1392824647  
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IowaSteeler927

IowaSteeler927

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyWed Feb 17, 2021 5:16 am

Ben wasn't the main issue with this team at the end of this season. He arguably was the only thing keeping us in games because of the complete and utter lack of a running game. Not to mention the dude was playing behind a rough-shod offensive line that had to keep rotating dudes because of various injuries to make matters worse. In the past Ben was able to hide these deficiencies in O-Line play because he was more athletic and could extend plays. He's gotten older and is more of a pocket passer at this point in his career and I think that's why the were using the quick passing game so much. O-Line isn't just an issue on this team, it's a much more major issue that I thought going into this season. These guys couldn't execute run blocks at all, and they got exposed later in the season when teams figured us out.

I don't at all buy that Ben was the main issue in regards to our offensive struggles this season. He had his ups and downs but was ultimately being asked to do way too much. Tom Brady had a running game, Aaron Rodgers had a running game, Ryan Tannehill definitely had a running game, Baker Mayfield had a running game... What did all those teams have that we didn't? You guessed it... a running game. They had balance and they weren't forcing their QBs to do too much like we were.

I also don't buy the "weak" schedule argument. Obviously some teams have worse records than others, and may statistically underperform. A lot of fans assume that this means those teams will be easy-outs and automatic W's in the win column. That's not the case at all, this is the NFL and it's comprised of the players who are the best in the world at their respective craft. Even players who are less talented or not considered to be starting material are still guys that managed to be in the very small percentage of players that make the jump from college to the NFL. That and the weak schedule argument doesn't take into consideration how one teams strengths match up to another team's weaknesses. You can say the other team is a lesser opponent based on prior performances, but you should never assume they'll just lay down and let you win either. They play the games for a reason, wouldn't be any sense in watching if it was all just a foregone conclusion.

At the end of the day our main priority in this offseason should be trying to get the cap under control, and keeping as many key contributors in place as is possible. We'll need to plug holes as well via the draft and possibly free agency. Offensive line is my biggest area of need for this team with C and LT being the top of the list. We have to have offensive balance, we have to be able to run he ball. The running game is still important even in the modern pass-happy NFL.

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"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." - Jack Lambert
RIP to the late great B.B. King the Mayor of Bluesville
RIP Tyler Sash #9. Greatest Hawkeye Safety to ever don the black & gold.
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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyWed Feb 17, 2021 7:01 am

Some speculation regarding JuJu's contract value.

https://triblive.com/sports/tim-benz-what-a-free-agent-contract-for-juju-smith-schuster-may-look-like-and-why-the-projections-make-sense/
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Master_Of_Puppets

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyWed Feb 17, 2021 1:03 pm

the steelers aren't 30 million over the cap now. of course we dont know yet what the cap will be , but at the worst case we might be 20 over. cutting joe haden alone would almost balance the books. that and doing whatever they are doing with ben will put the ledger back in green. of course those two moves alone are not enough to pay to fill up the rest of the roster so more cutting or restructuring will need to be done.

2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 Cap11

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SteelerFreak58

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyWed Feb 17, 2021 1:38 pm

The problems with kicking cans down the road are catching up with the team... gonna have to have one hell of a draft the way I see it...
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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyThu Feb 18, 2021 8:08 am

Banner seems to be a lock to come back.

https://steelersdepot.com/2021/02/mike-tomlin-to-zach-banner-you-are-my-answer-for-2021/
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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyThu Feb 18, 2021 9:40 am

Official cap has been set.

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Master_Of_Puppets

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyThu Feb 18, 2021 2:23 pm

@jak341 wrote:
Official cap has been set.

well...not really 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 2672159185

Quote :
NFL increases 2021 minimum salary cap number to $180 million; final number to be set at later date
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-increases-2021-minimum-salary-cap-number-to-180-million-final-number-to-be-set-at-later-date/

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kirklandrules

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyFri Feb 19, 2021 7:52 am

@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
@jak341 wrote:
Official cap has been set.

well...not really   2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 2672159185

Quote :
NFL increases 2021 minimum salary cap number to $180 million; final number to be set at later date
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-increases-2021-minimum-salary-cap-number-to-180-million-final-number-to-be-set-at-later-date/

So this article, like many, does a poor job explaining what this really means. There's a minimum amount each team has to spend each year or face penalties. Looks like in 2021 the minimum amount will be $180M. Great, the dump of the league can worry about that. However, it sounds like they haven't set the upper cap limit ($198M last season), which is what concerns most teams and fans. Thrilling 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 1401235891

Actually, what this information does tell me is that the Jags, Colts, and Jets are required to overpay players who make their final squad by resigning existing players or bringing in FAs with contracts that overpay based on their actual value on the field. JuJu, Dupree, hell even AV can hit a big contract by heading to the bottom of the barrel.

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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyFri Feb 19, 2021 9:58 am

Articles like this make you wonder. How committed are the Steelers leadership to winning?

https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2021/02/19/steelers-nfl-2021-kevin-colbert/
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Master_Of_Puppets

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyFri Feb 19, 2021 12:53 pm

@kirklandrules wrote:
@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
@jak341 wrote:
Official cap has been set.

well...not really   2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 2672159185

Quote :
NFL increases 2021 minimum salary cap number to $180 million; final number to be set at later date
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-increases-2021-minimum-salary-cap-number-to-180-million-final-number-to-be-set-at-later-date/

So this article, like many, does a poor job explaining what this really means. There's a minimum amount each team has to spend each year or face penalties. Looks like in 2021 the minimum amount will be $180M. Great, the dump of the league can worry about that. However, it sounds like they haven't set the upper cap limit ($198M last season), which is what concerns most teams and fans. Thrilling 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 1401235891

Actually, what this information does tell me is that the Jags, Colts, and Jets are required to overpay players who make their final squad by resigning existing players or bringing in FAs with contracts that overpay based on their actual value on the field. JuJu, Dupree, hell even AV can hit a big contract by heading to the bottom of the barrel.

im not sure how it works but if the cap was 198 million in 2020, how did the browns roll over 30 million when 175 was the floor ? or was 175 not the floor ?
Quote :

The Browns are carrying over $30.4 million, per the NFLPA’s official reporting. That’s nearly 10 percent of the total carryover from the entire league. Cleveland is the only team that made the playoffs in 2020 to carry over more than $16 million in cap room.

At the other end of the spectrum, the Baltimore Ravens carry over less than $600,000, the lowest in the league.
https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2021/02/19/browns-highest-2021-salary-cap-rollover-nflpa/
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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptySat Feb 20, 2021 6:07 pm

Good article about our drafts.

https://steelersdepot.com/2021/02/how-good-has-kevin-colbert-been-at-drafting/

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Stella Nation

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptySun Feb 21, 2021 5:39 am

That's a great article indeed. Some really nice drafts especially considering we almost always had late picks every round. However from the last 7 drafts, Colbert had 2 great ones and 5 mediocre to bad ones. Could he be declining and losing a step?
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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptySun Feb 21, 2021 8:17 am

@Stella Nation wrote:
That's a great article indeed. Some really nice drafts especially considering we almost always had late picks every round. However from the last 7 drafts, Colbert had 2 great ones and 5 mediocre to bad ones. Could he be declining and losing a step?

That is what I noticed as well. Great success early, but missed in later years.
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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptySun Feb 21, 2021 9:06 am

Good article about Steelers playoff history.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2021/2/20/22292776/steelers-playoff-struggles-are-nothing-new-for-the-organization-super-bowl-steel-curtain

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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyThu Mar 04, 2021 3:44 pm

Say what you want about Josh Dobbs the QB, but Josh Dobbs the Engineer is accomplished.

https://steelersnow.com/steelers-qb-josh-dobbs-interning-with-nasa-for-2nd-straight-year/

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Great Randino



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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyThu Mar 04, 2021 8:02 pm

@jak341 wrote:
Say what you want about Josh Dobbs the QB, but Josh Dobbs the Engineer is accomplished.

https://steelersnow.com/steelers-qb-josh-dobbs-interning-with-nasa-for-2nd-straight-year/
Always liked him. He's the one I'd really like to see get a chance to run the new offense. But alas, Ben just signed the contract.
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Master_Of_Puppets

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyThu Mar 04, 2021 11:19 pm

@Great Randino wrote:
@jak341 wrote:
Say what you want about Josh Dobbs the QB, but Josh Dobbs the Engineer is accomplished.

https://steelersnow.com/steelers-qb-josh-dobbs-interning-with-nasa-for-2nd-straight-year/
Always liked him.  He's the one I'd really like to see get a chance to run the new offense.  But alas, Ben just signed the contract.

Dobbs should get out of football and put that brain to use.
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jak341

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyThu Mar 04, 2021 11:22 pm

For what it's worth.

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solardave

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PostSubject: Re: 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves    2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 EmptyYesterday at 4:08 am

@Great Randino wrote:
@jak341 wrote:
Say what you want about Josh Dobbs the QB, but Josh Dobbs the Engineer is accomplished.

https://steelersnow.com/steelers-qb-josh-dobbs-interning-with-nasa-for-2nd-straight-year/
Always liked him.  He's the one I'd really like to see get a chance to run the new offense.  But alas, Ben just signed the contract.

Josh Dobbs is the smartest man on this team and that includes a few coaches. 2021 - 2022 Offseason Moves  - Page 8 1797695198 I don't think he has the physical skills to be a starter though.
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