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solardave

solardave

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Location : State of Confusion

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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptyFri Apr 02, 2021 3:43 pm

@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
affraid  ...i always get this guy in the 3rd in draft simulators.
Kentucky
LB Jamin Davis

Height: 6'3″ (87th percentile)
Weight: 234 (37th)
Arm: 33 (78th)
Hand: 9 1/2 (49th)
Vertical: 42 (100th)
Broad: 132 (99th)
Bench: 21 reps (49th)
40-yard: 4.37 (100th)

That's ridiculously fast for a LB!!!
it sure is. there seems to be an unusual amount of players running under 4.4 in this draft. i'm wondering just who is operating the stop watch. if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 2829330259 ...not that im suggesting there may be some fraud going on...but if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 2087824411 ..if i'm a players agent maybe i  slide some money in the stopwatch guys pocket if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 755331329

Who knows. They might be using Dominion stop watches. if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 2981382511
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Master_Of_Puppets

Master_Of_Puppets

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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptyFri Apr 02, 2021 6:23 pm

@solardave wrote:
@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
affraid  ...i always get this guy in the 3rd in draft simulators.
Kentucky
LB Jamin Davis

Height: 6'3″ (87th percentile)
Weight: 234 (37th)
Arm: 33 (78th)
Hand: 9 1/2 (49th)
Vertical: 42 (100th)
Broad: 132 (99th)
Bench: 21 reps (49th)
40-yard: 4.37 (100th)

That's ridiculously fast for a LB!!!
it sure is. there seems to be an unusual amount of players running under 4.4 in this draft. i'm wondering just who is operating the stop watch. if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 2829330259 ...not that im suggesting there may be some fraud going on...but if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 2087824411 ..if i'm a players agent maybe i  slide some money in the stopwatch guys pocket if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 755331329

Who knows. They might be using Dominion stop watches. if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 2981382511
Shocked ..i never thought of that.

seriously though there is a highlight vid of davis on youtube. the guy just doesnt look like a guy that can run a sub 40. after seeing that 4.37 i went back and watched it again. he had an interception return that went for a pretty good distance. he DID NOT make me think, damn that guy is pretty fast. just the opposite..he looks like he is running in sand.

watch the 1:00 mark.
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Great Randino



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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptyFri Apr 02, 2021 8:56 pm

I would submit to the Kirkland method, shut out all this combine nonsense and make my evaluations strictly from watching the tape from the season(s).
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Master_Of_Puppets

Master_Of_Puppets

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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptySat Apr 03, 2021 10:48 pm

i thought he would run at least a 4.6 No

LB Zaven Collins

Height: 6'5″ (98th percentile)
Weight: 259 (96th)
Vertical: 35 (61st)
Broad: 122 (78th)
40-yard: 4.67 (49th)
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Great Randino



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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptySat Apr 03, 2021 11:54 pm

@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
i thought he would run at least a 4.6  No

LB Zaven Collins

Height: 6'5″ (98th percentile)
Weight: 259 (96th)
Vertical: 35 (61st)
Broad: 122 (78th)
40-yard: 4.67 (49th)

MoP, I say GOOD. Perhaps he will be there when we pick then.

Ignore.
Zee.
Combine.
LOL.
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Stella Nation

Stella Nation

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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptySun Apr 04, 2021 11:59 am

If he's there at 24 Zavon Collins more than probably won't be the pick.

https://steelersdepot.com/2021/04/steelers-send-scout-assistant-coach-to-tulsas-pro-day/
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Great Randino



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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptySun Apr 04, 2021 2:52 pm

@Stella Nation wrote:
If he's there at 24 Zavon Collins more than probably won't be the pick.

https://steelersdepot.com/2021/04/steelers-send-scout-assistant-coach-to-tulsas-pro-day/
Could all be a fake-out too. Teams playing a lot of mind games this time of year.
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Master_Of_Puppets

Master_Of_Puppets

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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptySun Apr 04, 2021 4:09 pm

colbert and tomlin have actually only been to a few pro days.
clemson
georgia
auburn
florida state
alabama
penn state
michigan
ohio state
notre dame

they sent an assistant OLB coach to tulsa...jerry olsavsky went to missouri to see nick bolton. do they see collins as more of an OLB ?  if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 2087824411
they did have a meeting with collins.
is it odd that butler has not been spotted at any pro days ? if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 2087824411
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SteelerFreak58

SteelerFreak58

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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptySun Apr 04, 2021 4:38 pm

@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
colbert and tomlin have actually only been to a few pro days.
clemson
georgia
auburn
florida state
alabama
penn state
michigan
ohio state
notre dame

they sent an assistant OLB coach to tulsa...jerry olsavsky went to missouri to see nick bolton. do they see collins as more of an OLB ?  if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 2087824411
they did have a meeting with collins.
is it odd that butler has not been spotted at any pro days ? if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 2087824411

Butler's vote don't count!😂 Tomlin calls the defense Butler is there to carry his clip board!😂
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Master_Of_Puppets

Master_Of_Puppets

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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptySun Apr 04, 2021 10:50 pm

Quote :
Time as fast as 4.56 on stopwatches

again who's stop watch ? PFF website has him at 4.67. i guess his agent and his dad had him at 4.56 ... if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 1797695198
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kirklandrules

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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptyMon Apr 05, 2021 2:20 pm

@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
Quote :
Time as fast as 4.56 on stopwatches

again who's stop watch ? PFF website  has him at 4.67.  i guess his agent and his dad had him at 4.56 ... if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 1797695198

Looks like it's more in line with the 4.67 than anything else ... or at least that's the number that's reported most. Here's the deal: T.J. Watt ran a 4.69, Highsmith a 4.7, I bet Harrison was north of those numbers and here's what Ozzy Newsome said about him:
Quote :
"Number one, he came out of Kent State. Number two, the measurables were lacking. When you come from a small school, one of the things that can attract you to someone is good measurables. But some measurables were missing."

But what disappointed me most about Collins' workout was his 19 reps. That's weak sauce in my book. Having said all that, I'd still draft him because he made plays for a small school when his team really needed it most. Great players make great plays in great games. He was a team leader who had his team competitive even in losses to better teams.

The Steelers won't draft him, not because of his pro-day numbers, but I really think they are looking to fix that O-line for the long term.
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effyou515

effyou515

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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptyMon Apr 05, 2021 6:12 pm

@kirklandrules wrote:
@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
Quote :
Time as fast as 4.56 on stopwatches

again who's stop watch ? PFF website  has him at 4.67.  i guess his agent and his dad had him at 4.56 ... if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 1797695198

Looks like it's more in line with the 4.67 than anything else ... or at least that's the number that's reported most. Here's the deal: T.J. Watt ran a 4.69, Highsmith a 4.7, I bet Harrison was north of those numbers and here's what Ozzy Newsome said about him:
Quote :
"Number one, he came out of Kent State. Number two, the measurables were lacking. When you come from a small school, one of the things that can attract you to someone is good measurables. But some measurables were missing."

But what disappointed me most about Collins' workout was his 19 reps. That's weak sauce in my book. Having said all that, I'd still draft him because he made plays for a small school when his team really needed it most. Great players make great plays in great games. He was a team leader who had his team competitive even in losses to better teams.

The Steelers won't draft him, not because of his pro-day numbers, but I really think they are looking to fix that O-line for the long term.

been thinking an offensive draft for some time imho defense will be drafted in the lower draft picks. next years will be the defensive draft picks.

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coach she's to big and strong we can't stop her. coach "hit her in the dick" if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 1392824647  
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Master_Of_Puppets

Master_Of_Puppets

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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptyMon Apr 05, 2021 9:46 pm

@kirklandrules wrote:
@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
Quote :
Time as fast as 4.56 on stopwatches

again who's stop watch ? PFF website  has him at 4.67.  i guess his agent and his dad had him at 4.56 ... if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 1797695198

Looks like it's more in line with the 4.67 than anything else ... or at least that's the number that's reported most. Here's the deal: T.J. Watt ran a 4.69, Highsmith a 4.7, I bet Harrison was north of those numbers and here's what Ozzy Newsome said about him:
Quote :
"Number one, he came out of Kent State. Number two, the measurables were lacking. When you come from a small school, one of the things that can attract you to someone is good measurables. But some measurables were missing."

But what disappointed me most about Collins' workout was his 19 reps. That's weak sauce in my book. Having said all that, I'd still draft him because he made plays for a small school when his team really needed it most. Great players make great plays in great games. He was a team leader who had his team competitive even in losses to better teams.

The Steelers won't draft him, not because of his pro-day numbers, but I really think they are looking to fix that O-line for the long term.

i guess it depends on if you are looking at him as an olb or an ilb. a 4.67 for an OLB isn't an issue. Not ideal , but a handicap that can be overcome with a quick first step, some moves, and strength. but for an ILB ? thats why VWill is gone. those slow moving thumpers in the middle of the field are being phased out.
Collins is not a good pass rusher. look deeper than his highlight tape where he has very little resistance to get to the QB and one can easily see that.
nick boltons knock is he is slow and unathletic. he ran a 4.59. then proceeded to prove his detractors right by being horrible in the 3 cone and short shuttle if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 1797695198
but at least he did them , collins skipped those... Shocked
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kirklandrules

kirklandrules

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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptyTue Apr 06, 2021 12:31 pm

@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
@kirklandrules wrote:
@Master_Of_Puppets wrote:
Quote :
Time as fast as 4.56 on stopwatches

again who's stop watch ? PFF website  has him at 4.67.  i guess his agent and his dad had him at 4.56 ... if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 1797695198

Looks like it's more in line with the 4.67 than anything else ... or at least that's the number that's reported most. Here's the deal: T.J. Watt ran a 4.69, Highsmith a 4.7, I bet Harrison was north of those numbers and here's what Ozzy Newsome said about him:
Quote :
"Number one, he came out of Kent State. Number two, the measurables were lacking. When you come from a small school, one of the things that can attract you to someone is good measurables. But some measurables were missing."

But what disappointed me most about Collins' workout was his 19 reps. That's weak sauce in my book. Having said all that, I'd still draft him because he made plays for a small school when his team really needed it most. Great players make great plays in great games. He was a team leader who had his team competitive even in losses to better teams.

The Steelers won't draft him, not because of his pro-day numbers, but I really think they are looking to fix that O-line for the long term.

i guess it depends on if you are looking at him as an olb or an ilb. a 4.67 for an OLB isn't an issue. Not ideal , but a handicap that can be overcome with a quick first step, some moves, and strength.  but for an ILB ? thats why VWill is gone. those slow moving thumpers in the middle of the field are being phased out.
Collins is not a good pass rusher. look deeper than his highlight tape where he has very little resistance to get to the QB and one can easily see that.
nick boltons knock is he is slow and unathletic. he ran a 4.59.  then proceeded to prove his detractors right by being horrible in the 3 cone and short shuttle  if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 1797695198
but at least he did them ,  collins skipped those... Shocked

At 6'4", I'd say you don't have to run a sub- 4.6 40 yard time and I wouldn't have him as an OLB, just comparing him to younger LBs on the team (outside of Bush, not sure any of the ILBs were at the combine). The extra height and wingspan make up some of that difference. I loved Leighton Vander Esch coming out of college and thought the Steelers were going to take him until the Cowgirls stole him. At 6'4" he ran a 4.65. His speed doesn't seem to hurt his ILB game. At 5'11" Devin Bush should run a 4.43 40. For the passing game, it's not just the speed. If you have size and arm length, you can shrink the window the QB can throw into. Obviously, there's a fine point between the right speed and the right size.

The big thing about playing ILB, IMHO, is read and recognition speed and not just foot speed. VW had a decent career with lower measurables because he could recognize a play fairly quickly and get an early jump (reducing any negatives from his slower speeds). Larry Foote was very similar. Watch entire games of Collins and you see a guy in command of what is happening before and after the ball is snapped. He has a high football IQ.

Nick Bolton is another creature. What I like about him is the old school "see ball, kill ball" that is the DNA of his game. Will that translate well into the NFL with all of the packages, and different responsibilities he'll have at the next level. Makes for great highlights, but watching his game film shows me aside from a heat seeker missile I'm not sure I see that high level, lightning speed diagnosis of a play (outside of runs in his lane) and making those plays. It's why Collins had so many plays in the passing game and some people are unsure how good Bolton will be in the passing game at the NFL level. Honestly, instead of drafting Bolton (who I really wouldn't at #24), I'd go with Cameron McGrone from Michigan. Similar player, but McGrone can be had a little later in the draft and might need a little more coaching to get to his peak (he was a redshirt sophomore while Bolton was a junior ... so a little less experience/playing time for McGrone).

If you get too stuck on the measurables and lose focus on the results these guys had on the field, you're going to overdraft or miss out on players. Hell, Ulysees Gilbert had a pro day that should have put him in the 2nd round of his draft class (sub - 4.5 40 and a crazy 39.5 vert), but his field play landed him in the 6th round for the Steelers. Don't lose sight of how well or poorly they played with pads and maybe take what you see in their shorts (underwear?) with a bit of a grain of salt.

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SteelerFreak58

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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptyTue Apr 06, 2021 9:20 pm

I would think a high IQ and seeing plays develop and being in the right spot would make up for a few tenths of a second on a 40 for sure without a doubt.
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Great Randino



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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptyWed Apr 07, 2021 1:28 am

Not to say athleticism doesn't matter, because obviously it does, but high football IQ (and an insane work ethic) is why Tom Brady, drafted in the 6th round, because the best (or one of the best) QB of all time.
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Stella Nation

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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptyWed Apr 07, 2021 11:21 am

At 24 I believe they will take a RB just because they basically have no choice. We currently only have Snell, McFarland, Samuels and Ballage, that's a bunch of RB#3 at best. We even lack a viable #2. So they need a RB#1. Problem is this is one of the weakest RB groups in the draft ever. There are only 3 possible day 1 starters (and maybe 1 or 2 others that no one saw coming). So Etienne or Harris will be the pick at 24 and if both would be gone (which I don't expect) they'll take Javonte Williams, because he will be gone before 55 and there's no other RB worth taking at 55. Both outside and inside OL's are pretty deep so they can fix that issue in 2nd and 3rd round.
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SteelerFreak58

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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptyWed Apr 07, 2021 12:12 pm

@Stella Nation wrote:
At 24 I believe they will take a RB just because they basically have no choice. We currently only have Snell, McFarland, Samuels and Ballage, that's a bunch of RB#3 at best. We even lack a viable #2. So they need a RB#1. Problem is this is one of the weakest RB groups in the draft ever. There are only 3 possible day 1 starters (and maybe 1 or 2 others that no one saw coming). So Etienne or Harris will be the pick at 24 and if both would be gone (which I don't expect) they'll take Javonte Williams, because he will be gone before 55 and there's no other RB worth taking at 55. Both outside and inside OL's are pretty deep so they can fix that issue in 2nd and 3rd round.

Taking a RB in the 1st would be a huge mistake considering how poorly the Oline played last year. I dont care if they had Jim Brown or Barry Sanders that Oline was the reason our RBs did not produce. Pouncey was absolute dog shit, Decastro was hurt, and Villanueva was getting knocked back 2 to 3 yards regularly on run plays, hell even Feiler didnt do that well and I think that was because Pouncey was fucking horrible.

They need to address Center and LT before they go RB. Trey Sermon should be there in round 3.

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Master_Of_Puppets

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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptyWed Apr 07, 2021 4:02 pm

@SteelerFreak58 wrote:
@Stella Nation wrote:
At 24 I believe they will take a RB just because they basically have no choice. We currently only have Snell, McFarland, Samuels and Ballage, that's a bunch of RB#3 at best. We even lack a viable #2. So they need a RB#1. Problem is this is one of the weakest RB groups in the draft ever. There are only 3 possible day 1 starters (and maybe 1 or 2 others that no one saw coming). So Etienne or Harris will be the pick at 24 and if both would be gone (which I don't expect) they'll take Javonte Williams, because he will be gone before 55 and there's no other RB worth taking at 55. Both outside and inside OL's are pretty deep so they can fix that issue in 2nd and 3rd round.

Taking a RB in the 1st would be a huge mistake considering how poorly the Oline played last year. I dont care if they had Jim Brown or Barry Sanders that Oline was the reason our RBs did not produce. Pouncey was absolute dog shit, Decastro was hurt, and Villanueva was getting knocked back 2 to 3 yards regularly on run plays, hell even Feiler didnt do that well and I think that was because Pouncey was fucking horrible.

They need to address Center and LT before they go RB. Trey Sermon should be there in round 3.

if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 Preach-my-brother-preach-on

people keep saying this is a deep class for OT which it appears to be , but how many of those are specifically NFL grade LEFT tackles ? even the ones who play LT in college may not cut the mustard as a LT in the NFL. plus, right or wrong, i have seen a lot of those tackles painted with a guard brush. if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 2087824411
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Great Randino



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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptyWed Apr 07, 2021 6:35 pm

Sorry, but if Najee Harris is there at 24, we should take him. We may be able to get a good OL in round 2 and shore it up in free agency, but Harris should be a lock if he's there.
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Master_Of_Puppets

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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptyWed Apr 07, 2021 8:35 pm

@Great Randino wrote:
Sorry, but if Najee Harris is there at 24, we should take him.  We may be able to get a good OL in round 2 and shore it up in free agency, but Harris should be a lock if he's there.

i'm not saying they wouldn't , but i would not bet on it that they would.. if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 2893009358
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Great Randino



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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptyThu Apr 08, 2021 1:03 am

In my opinion, you pick up an OL in the 2nd round. You grab a player like Harris in the first if you possibly can.
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JPPT1974

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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptyThu Apr 08, 2021 9:57 pm

Yeah as really the OL and how they are in the need to beef up. And plus maybe next year could be in a QB there. As Big Ben may just play one more year.

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Great Randino



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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptyFri Apr 09, 2021 1:42 am

If there were a Pouncey in this year's draft, maybe I'd feel differently. But I don't think there is. Hence my belief that the Steelers should grab a skill position player like Harris (if he's on the board).
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Master_Of_Puppets

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PostSubject: Re: if he falls to 24.....   if he falls to 24..... - Page 5 EmptyFri Apr 09, 2021 4:07 pm

here is the LEFT tackles projected for the first 3 rounds. this is just the left , not the right. i'm also leaving the guys off that are projected as guards for the NFL.

1ST
Christain Darrisaw

2nd
dillion Randunz
walker little
alex leatherwood
liam eichenberg

3rd
brady christensen
james hudson
dionte smith

we could easily miss out on everyone of these guys at 55 or 87.

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