So, let's say we pick Harris at #24. Are we able to assemble a good enough line, through the draft and free agency, so we can actually utilize his talents?
Good question. I think the linemen they have aren't as bad as fans think. Here's an interesting quote from Banner in an article posted on Behind the Steel Curtain:
Quote :
Banner’s comments weren’t just on Mike Tomlin, the Steelers organization or his work ethic. No, he also had some thoughts on Adrian Klemm being named the Steelers’ new offensive line coach after Shaun Sarrett’s contract wasn’t renewed.
“Love it, love it, absolutely love it,” Banner said. “Look at my development. It’s him. We have to detach him from the things that were going on because that wasn’t his job. His job was to be in the room, draw cards and develop guys. He is the person who is cussing us out because we aren’t savage enough. He is the one who brings the mentality, the physicality. You saw me during camp wanting to finish. That’s him in my ear. Imagine if that’s the entire offensive line unit.”
See the full article here
But like I mentioned earlier, if the Tackle they really like is on the board when they go to the podium to pick at #24, they will take the Tackle.
What if Ben retires prior to the draft? Does that change who we pick at 24, if, say, Trey Lance or Mac Jones are still on the board?
That's a great question. Do they think Rudolph can get the job done if they guy they really like isn't available or they don't have the ability to move up and get their guy? Not sure what Lance really is because he didn't play at a big school, didn't play last year, but looked good for the one year he did play. He should have transferred to a top tiered team and played in 2020 ... but he didn't. What does he look like when the NFL smacks him in the face? I like Jones and feel he gets a bad rap for being on an awesome team. It's like being on Bama is a bad thing for a QB because it's an All Star team ... but no one says that about the WRs, RBs, linemen, etc. Not saying he should be the man, but I do think he did a great job, when in fact, a bad QB would have screwed they team's chances to win a championship.
What if the Steelers really like a college QB who will be coming out next year?
Master_Of_Puppets
Posts : 2373 Join date : 2011-04-08
Subject: Re: if he falls to 24..... Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:37 am
the knock on jones isn't just that he was surrounded by top tier talent , although i do believe it is a legit discussion to have. i mean how will he fair when called upon to carry the team at times when he isn't in ideal conditions ? his arm strength and lack of mobility have to be taken into consideration. he would have been fine playing in fichtners dink and dunk system this year. probably would have been better than Ben since he is more accurate. but could he play in 5 step drop down field system like arians with pressure in his face ?
Quote :
“Mac Jones I don’t see being good in the NFL,” Schwartz said. “I think we’re seeing a new version of quarterback that has to be mobile. Mac Jones is not mobile. I think we look at how open his wide receivers are at Alabama — Tua (Tagovailoa, fellow Alabama alum) is having this problem in the NFL — they’re not open in the NFL. You have to throw them open. You have to say, ‘OK, he’s not open now, but if I throw the ball now, he will be open then.’ That anticipation, you don’t have to do that at Alabama. You don’t have to anticipate, these guys are wide open.
“I’m worried about Mac Jones’ mobility, and his ability to throw into tight windows when it’s not perfect.”
I co-sign on all that, too. As Doug Farrar of USA Today pointed out, Alabama went to great lengths to minimize Jones’ need to throw on the move.
Posts : 1290 Join date : 2015-05-13 Location : Stella City
Subject: Re: if he falls to 24..... Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:07 am
Both Dickerson and Parsons got a red flag from me.
Dickerson, because of his injuries, he already had three times a season ending injury. That's way too much and the NFL is even harder.
Parsons, because of serious character concerns. One of his teammates sued Penn State for hazing and it's publicaly known that Parsons was named in the lawsuit for administering physical, verbal and emotional abuse on his teammate. It's also rumoured that teams have other concerns on him as well, both on his football character and his off-field conduct.
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effyou515
Posts : 4738 Join date : 2011-09-28 Location : from upper Ohio Valley to Conyers Ga.
Subject: Re: if he falls to 24..... Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:02 am
In fairness Fittipaldo's mock draft was from February 8th which was 4 days before the Post Gazette officially announced Pounceys retirement (although it was pretty much assumed before that)
In a different article from February 15th Fittipaldo talked about the search for a new center. He listed some possibilities from the draft and then some free agent centers he thought might be affordable to Steelers:
Quote :
Landon Dickerson, Alabama Creed Humphrey, Oklahoma Josh Myers, Ohio State
From free agency he listed these possibilities:
Quote :
David Andrews, New England Austin Reiter, Kansas City Ted Karras, Miami
those are probably the only 3 centers in the draft who might actually be starter quality. i wouldn't bet the farm that one of them lasts until the 88th pick.not sayin one wont , just sayin i wouldnt bet on it. i mean there might be a surprise or two out of the others similiar to the gem we found in dotson, but as i said, i wouldn't bet on it. i also wouldn't hold my breath that a , "good" starter could be had in free agency. there are more sean mahan types than a jeff hartings. i see people saying they can just move zack banner to LT and keep chuks at RT .... we barely got a glimpse of banner at RT and now all the sudden he is a verified LT ? oh hell no. they need to use those 1st two picks, be it a 1st and 2nd round, or preferably two 2nd round picks on a LT and C. TRADE BACK !!!
I like Dickerson and Humphrey for very different reasons. Dickerson is just a powerhouse ... big, strong and seems to enjoy pounding on his opponents. Humphrey, also strong enough in his own right (but I'm thinking not quite as powerful as Dickerson) is a very smart guy who you can see pointing out defenders in pre-snap and talking to his linemates between plays.
Myers is another smart player who saw plenty of guard duty before moving to center, so he knows the interior positions. He comes from a family of athletes, which is helpful in his knowledge of how to act like a pro athlete.
I agree there are more Mahans than Hartings in this draft. The 3 guys listed above are not the Pouncey type that are good out in space. But maybe the Steelers need someone who can handle his area against bigger NTs that are seen in the AFC North.
how many times do/did the Steelers pull the OC on running plays? what type of o-linemen are better suited for Canada's offense? get the guy with power and can get to the second level. Humphrey reminds me of Mike Webster.
To expand on MOPs assessment of the Center position in this draft: I don't see a 1st round pick, because the talent isn't there. I wouldn't spend a #24 on any of the centers in this draft. None of these guys have shown great ability to block beyond the line of scrimmage. So you're just not getting that type of talent out of this draft. If you really want Humphrey, then I agree with MOP and would trade back 15 spots and pick him up there (mid 2nd round). Or get another position at #24 and pick up whoever is still on the board as a center with your 2nd round pick, hoping there isn't a run on Centers before they pick in the 2nd.
This isn't to say that none of these guys can't develop into really good centers. I'm just saying that what they have shown on the field does not translate into 1st round draft picks.
I really think if the Tackle they want is there at 24, that is who they will take. If not, it could be one of any number of positions (I still love that Tulsa LB). Could be Harris.
not so much 24th pick but my favorite between Dickerson Humphrey and Myers. Ohio State is mostly a zone blocking o-line.
_________________ The female players: "Coach she's to big and strong we can't stop her.
the knock on jones isn't just that he was surrounded by top tier talent , although i do believe it is a legit discussion to have. i mean how will he fair when called upon to carry the team at times when he isn't in ideal conditions ? his arm strength and lack of mobility have to be taken into consideration. he would have been fine playing in fichtners dink and dunk system this year. probably would have been better than Ben since he is more accurate. but could he play in 5 step drop down field system like arians with pressure in his face ?
Quote :
“Mac Jones I don’t see being good in the NFL,” Schwartz said. “I think we’re seeing a new version of quarterback that has to be mobile. Mac Jones is not mobile. I think we look at how open his wide receivers are at Alabama — Tua (Tagovailoa, fellow Alabama alum) is having this problem in the NFL — they’re not open in the NFL. You have to throw them open. You have to say, ‘OK, he’s not open now, but if I throw the ball now, he will be open then.’ That anticipation, you don’t have to do that at Alabama. You don’t have to anticipate, these guys are wide open.
“I’m worried about Mac Jones’ mobility, and his ability to throw into tight windows when it’s not perfect.”
I co-sign on all that, too. As Doug Farrar of USA Today pointed out, Alabama went to great lengths to minimize Jones’ need to throw on the move.
the knock on jones isn't just that he was surrounded by top tier talent , although i do believe it is a legit discussion to have. i mean how will he fair when called upon to carry the team at times when he isn't in ideal conditions ? his arm strength and lack of mobility have to be taken into consideration. he would have been fine playing in fichtners dink and dunk system this year. probably would have been better than Ben since he is more accurate. but could he play in 5 step drop down field system like arians with pressure in his face ?
Quote :
“Mac Jones I don’t see being good in the NFL,” Schwartz said. “I think we’re seeing a new version of quarterback that has to be mobile. Mac Jones is not mobile. I think we look at how open his wide receivers are at Alabama — Tua (Tagovailoa, fellow Alabama alum) is having this problem in the NFL — they’re not open in the NFL. You have to throw them open. You have to say, ‘OK, he’s not open now, but if I throw the ball now, he will be open then.’ That anticipation, you don’t have to do that at Alabama. You don’t have to anticipate, these guys are wide open.
“I’m worried about Mac Jones’ mobility, and his ability to throw into tight windows when it’s not perfect.”
I co-sign on all that, too. As Doug Farrar of USA Today pointed out, Alabama went to great lengths to minimize Jones’ need to throw on the move.
funny you mentioned brady ..i just watched some of a tom brady michigan game on youtube. i was curious to see if he looked anything like kyle trask. size arm strength and mobility looks to be about the same. i would give brady the edge in footwork and pocket awareness. my comparison with jones would be chad pennington.
the knock on jones isn't just that he was surrounded by top tier talent , although i do believe it is a legit discussion to have. i mean how will he fair when called upon to carry the team at times when he isn't in ideal conditions ? his arm strength and lack of mobility have to be taken into consideration. he would have been fine playing in fichtners dink and dunk system this year. probably would have been better than Ben since he is more accurate. but could he play in 5 step drop down field system like arians with pressure in his face ?
Quote :
“Mac Jones I don’t see being good in the NFL,” Schwartz said. “I think we’re seeing a new version of quarterback that has to be mobile. Mac Jones is not mobile. I think we look at how open his wide receivers are at Alabama — Tua (Tagovailoa, fellow Alabama alum) is having this problem in the NFL — they’re not open in the NFL. You have to throw them open. You have to say, ‘OK, he’s not open now, but if I throw the ball now, he will be open then.’ That anticipation, you don’t have to do that at Alabama. You don’t have to anticipate, these guys are wide open.
“I’m worried about Mac Jones’ mobility, and his ability to throw into tight windows when it’s not perfect.”
I co-sign on all that, too. As Doug Farrar of USA Today pointed out, Alabama went to great lengths to minimize Jones’ need to throw on the move.
funny you mentioned brady ..i just watched some of a tom brady michigan game on youtube. i was curious to see if he looked anything like kyle trask. size arm strength and mobility looks to be about the same. i would give brady the edge in footwork and pocket awareness. my comparison with jones would be chad pennington.
Interesting to look back and see these guys play in college. Brady didn't change his game a ton, but had those guys like Edelman and Troy Brown before him when he was at NE. You see the same short patterns at Michigan that Edelman and Brown were able to turn into big plays for Tommy in the NFL.
solardave
Posts : 5487 Join date : 2011-09-30 Location : State of Confusion
Subject: Re: if he falls to 24..... Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:38 pm
the knock on jones isn't just that he was surrounded by top tier talent , although i do believe it is a legit discussion to have. i mean how will he fair when called upon to carry the team at times when he isn't in ideal conditions ? his arm strength and lack of mobility have to be taken into consideration. he would have been fine playing in fichtners dink and dunk system this year. probably would have been better than Ben since he is more accurate. but could he play in 5 step drop down field system like arians with pressure in his face ?
Quote :
“Mac Jones I don’t see being good in the NFL,” Schwartz said. “I think we’re seeing a new version of quarterback that has to be mobile. Mac Jones is not mobile. I think we look at how open his wide receivers are at Alabama — Tua (Tagovailoa, fellow Alabama alum) is having this problem in the NFL — they’re not open in the NFL. You have to throw them open. You have to say, ‘OK, he’s not open now, but if I throw the ball now, he will be open then.’ That anticipation, you don’t have to do that at Alabama. You don’t have to anticipate, these guys are wide open.
“I’m worried about Mac Jones’ mobility, and his ability to throw into tight windows when it’s not perfect.”
I co-sign on all that, too. As Doug Farrar of USA Today pointed out, Alabama went to great lengths to minimize Jones’ need to throw on the move.
the knock on jones isn't just that he was surrounded by top tier talent , although i do believe it is a legit discussion to have. i mean how will he fair when called upon to carry the team at times when he isn't in ideal conditions ? his arm strength and lack of mobility have to be taken into consideration. he would have been fine playing in fichtners dink and dunk system this year. probably would have been better than Ben since he is more accurate. but could he play in 5 step drop down field system like arians with pressure in his face ?
Quote :
“Mac Jones I don’t see being good in the NFL,” Schwartz said. “I think we’re seeing a new version of quarterback that has to be mobile. Mac Jones is not mobile. I think we look at how open his wide receivers are at Alabama — Tua (Tagovailoa, fellow Alabama alum) is having this problem in the NFL — they’re not open in the NFL. You have to throw them open. You have to say, ‘OK, he’s not open now, but if I throw the ball now, he will be open then.’ That anticipation, you don’t have to do that at Alabama. You don’t have to anticipate, these guys are wide open.
“I’m worried about Mac Jones’ mobility, and his ability to throw into tight windows when it’s not perfect.”
I co-sign on all that, too. As Doug Farrar of USA Today pointed out, Alabama went to great lengths to minimize Jones’ need to throw on the move.
I don't necessarily believe the next great QB is going to be the best athlete. The NFL seems to be geared to that but I think someone will break the mold, and in a few big way. They will have to have escapability, pocket presence, high intelligence and ability to think quickly - and an incredible work ethic. But defenses adjust to mobile, "Dual-threat" QB's. Adjusting to a highly intelligent, fast-thinking field general is a whole different thing.
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Master_Of_Puppets
Posts : 2373 Join date : 2011-04-08
Subject: Re: if he falls to 24..... Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:29 pm
the knock on jones isn't just that he was surrounded by top tier talent , although i do believe it is a legit discussion to have. i mean how will he fair when called upon to carry the team at times when he isn't in ideal conditions ? his arm strength and lack of mobility have to be taken into consideration. he would have been fine playing in fichtners dink and dunk system this year. probably would have been better than Ben since he is more accurate. but could he play in 5 step drop down field system like arians with pressure in his face ?
Quote :
“Mac Jones I don’t see being good in the NFL,” Schwartz said. “I think we’re seeing a new version of quarterback that has to be mobile. Mac Jones is not mobile. I think we look at how open his wide receivers are at Alabama — Tua (Tagovailoa, fellow Alabama alum) is having this problem in the NFL — they’re not open in the NFL. You have to throw them open. You have to say, ‘OK, he’s not open now, but if I throw the ball now, he will be open then.’ That anticipation, you don’t have to do that at Alabama. You don’t have to anticipate, these guys are wide open.
“I’m worried about Mac Jones’ mobility, and his ability to throw into tight windows when it’s not perfect.”
I co-sign on all that, too. As Doug Farrar of USA Today pointed out, Alabama went to great lengths to minimize Jones’ need to throw on the move.
I don't necessarily believe the next great QB is going to be the best athlete. The NFL seems to be geared to that but I think someone will break the mold, and in a few big way. They will have to have escapability, pocket presence, high intelligence and ability to think quickly - and an incredible work ethic. But defenses adjust to mobile, "Dual-threat" QB's. Adjusting to a highly intelligent, fast-thinking field general is a whole different thing.
the NFL is a copy cat league. look how many teams switched to the 3-4 because of great steelers 90's defenses. to suggest that QB like dan marino or peyton manning wouldn't thrive in todays NFL because they can't run a 4.5 is just stupid. i mean not long ago teams just had to have a 6'5" QB. physical measurable's should be a plus not a necessity. people conquer physical limitations and do amazing things all the time. MY concern and many others concern is jones arm strength. just watch some of highlights and note the travel time of the ball. he gets the ball there but the velocity you see from guys like fields or wilson just isnt there. if they were pitchers fields and wilson would be throwing high 90's and jones would be throwing in the 80's. he easily got away with it because his receivers always had a 2 steps on the defenders. unlike with Zach Wilson , not once when i watch his highlights do i think, damn that was an impressive throw.
wilson has the "competiton" knock against him..but if you think about it , it makes no sense when you consider he may not have played against great defenses, but he also wasn't throwing to 1st round receivers. if he played for alabama , people would be talking about him just like they are about lawrence. on the flip side i believe if mac jones played for BYU , nobody would be talking about him.
watch both videos and compare not the passes but where the defenders are when the catches are made. you will see the difference between 1st round receivers and late round receivers / undrafted . Dax milne has incredible hands and concentration but not the speed or athleticism , so being able to seperate against NFL defenders is his concern.
watch the throw wilson makes at the 2 minute mark. a 35 yd fast ball on a rope with a defender in the receivers hip pocket. you will not see a throw at that distance from jones. hell just listen to how many time on the wilson video the commentators comment on the throw. jones highlights are mostly him dropping dimes over the top on go routes...but so was mason rudolfs.
Great Randino
Posts : 1370 Join date : 2018-08-31
Subject: Re: if he falls to 24..... Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:29 pm
We are in agreement about so much of these things. I just watched both videos too - I can see why Zach Wilson is so highly thought of. A lot of those throws in very tight windows. Some of Jones' were too, but there were a LOT of throws to a wide open Davonta Smith - and a number of really not so great throws in there as well.
I saw a mock that had Justin Fields falling to the Steelers at 24 and the Steelers taking him. I don't think he will fall that far, but what's your opinion on that?
Master_Of_Puppets
Posts : 2373 Join date : 2011-04-08
Subject: Re: if he falls to 24..... Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:02 am
We are in agreement about so much of these things. I just watched both videos too - I can see why Zach Wilson is so highly thought of. A lot of those throws in very tight windows. Some of Jones' were too, but there were a LOT of throws to a wide open Davonta Smith - and a number of really not so great throws in there as well.
I saw a mock that had Justin Fields falling to the Steelers at 24 and the Steelers taking him. I don't think he will fall that far, but what's your opinion on that?
i hopped on the wilson train a few months ago when all the mockster had him in the 2nd round... ..i got reciepts here on the forum if you want proof, i even predicted he could be a top 5 pick ahead of fields. ... naw fields aint gonna drop to 24. to many needy teams. if any of the big 4 drop it would lance, but i dont see that happening. could you image the reaction from bears ,Patriots********* , bronco's ,lions, panther or redskin fans if one of those 2 were passed on ? thats a long gauntlet of QB starved teams to run passed to get to the steelers. we see the qb feeding frenzy every year , and much less hyped QB's go earlier than 24. i mean just look how much more hype jones is getting now compared to a month ago. he went from from the middle of the second round all the way to the middle of the first. the virus might be the best thing to ever happen to some of these guys. keeps em from getting exposed at the combine. i still can't get over how some of these guys that opted out would risk potentially millions of dollars by falling for this rona scam. i would think disappearance of our annual influenza would set of alarm bells for most people, but the sheep just aint catching on.
Not A Single Case Of Flu Detected By UK Health Authorities This Year https://newspunch.com/not-a-single-case-of-flu-detected-by-uk-health-authorities-this-year/
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effyou515
Posts : 4738 Join date : 2011-09-28 Location : from upper Ohio Valley to Conyers Ga.
Subject: Re: if he falls to 24..... Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:19 am
We are in agreement about so much of these things. I just watched both videos too - I can see why Zach Wilson is so highly thought of. A lot of those throws in very tight windows. Some of Jones' were too, but there were a LOT of throws to a wide open Davonta Smith - and a number of really not so great throws in there as well.
I saw a mock that had Justin Fields falling to the Steelers at 24 and the Steelers taking him. I don't think he will fall that far, but what's your opinion on that?
i hopped on the wilson train a few months ago when all the mockster had him in the 2nd round... ..i got reciepts here on the forum if you want proof, i even predicted he could be a top 5 pick ahead of fields. ... naw fields aint gonna drop to 24. to many needy teams. if any of the big 4 drop it would lance, but i dont see that happening. could you image the reaction from bears ,Patriots*********** , bronco's ,lions, panther or redskin fans if one of those 2 were passed on ? thats a long gauntlet of QB starved teams to run passed to get to the steelers. we see the qb feeding frenzy every year , and much less hyped QB's go earlier than 24. i mean just look how much more hype jones is getting now compared to a month ago. he went from from the middle of the second round all the way to the middle of the first. the virus might be the best thing to ever happen to some of these guys. keeps em from getting exposed at the combine. i still can't get over how some of these guys that opted out would risk potentially millions of dollars by falling for this rona scam. i would think disappearance of our annual influenza would set of alarm bells for most people, but the sheep just aint catching on.
Not A Single Case Of Flu Detected By UK Health Authorities This Year https://newspunch.com/not-a-single-case-of-flu-detected-by-uk-health-authorities-this-year/
when, where and what time is the lamb and hog roast?
_________________ The female players: "Coach she's to big and strong we can't stop her.
coach: "hit her in the dick"
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effyou515
Posts : 4738 Join date : 2011-09-28 Location : from upper Ohio Valley to Conyers Ga.
Subject: Re: if he falls to 24..... Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:35 am
Even though the Steelers and Ben Roethlisberger are planning to continue their partnership, I don't see the veteran playing much longer. In a stunning turn of events, Fields slides all the way to No. 24 (obviously, it won't be a surprise if he goes much earlier than this) and Pittsburgh pounces at the chance to land a talented successor for Big Ben. Sitting behind a future Hall of Famer for a year is a prime spot for the Ohio State prospect.
dang he's got Justin Fields dropping to the Steelers. when Fields took over as QB Ohio State threw out the short passing game part of their playbook. he does throw a very good deep deep ball.
Travis Etienne Pittsburgh Steelers: A week ago, I had Najee Harris going right here to the Steelers. The idea of Harris, a power back with great hands, makes a lot of sense to me. But I think that offensive could use even more firepower coming out of the backfield – and Travis Etienne can catch the ball well, too, coming out of the backfield but he has something Harris does not: home-run speed. The Steelers have their starting left tackle, top running back, leading receiver and No. 2 pass rusher ticketed for the open market in 2021, and Etienne is the pick here.
The Steelers have aging corners outside in Steven Nelson and Joe Haden and both sub-package players, Mike Hilton and Cameron Sutton, are free agents. Horn, the son of former NFL wide receiver Joe Horn, is getting the due he deserves as a big-time corner. His big two-interception game against Auburn fueled an upset as he was the best player on the field. This Horn has good size, length, athleticism and physicality to contain wideouts.
The Steelers need to beef up the O-line, but they also need to figure out how to re-establish the run. Najee Harris isn't Derrick Henry, but he has similar traits with the added ability to catch the ball out of the backfield. If Pittsburgh can find a run game, their passing offense becomes much more consistent (and less predictable).
inside run game if the o-line can open up some holes.
Easily one of the best running backs in college football last year, Harris has shown that he can be an all-around back, catching the ball, blocking, finding open space and creating yards for himself. The Steelers haven’t had that kind of consistent runner since they let go of Le’Veon Bell.
https://walterfootball.com/draft2021.php
Quote :
Pittsburgh Steelers: Jalen Mayfield, OT, Michigan
The Steelers have several offensive linemen set to hit free agency, so they could address the position with this pick. Jalen Mayfield did a great job against Chase Young late in 2019, showcasing his athletic potential.
If the Steelers weren’t so desperate for help on the offensive line, Micah Parsons might merit even a little consideration this late. However, Pittsburgh can’t field a competitive football team in 2021 with the line it currently plans to roll out next season. Jenkins can handle himself at right tackle in his first NFL season, providing some much-needed support as a run blocker.
some draft sites who they think the Steelers will draft at 24.
_________________ The female players: "Coach she's to big and strong we can't stop her.
the knock on jones isn't just that he was surrounded by top tier talent , although i do believe it is a legit discussion to have. i mean how will he fair when called upon to carry the team at times when he isn't in ideal conditions ? his arm strength and lack of mobility have to be taken into consideration. he would have been fine playing in fichtners dink and dunk system this year. probably would have been better than Ben since he is more accurate. but could he play in 5 step drop down field system like arians with pressure in his face ?
Quote :
“Mac Jones I don’t see being good in the NFL,” Schwartz said. “I think we’re seeing a new version of quarterback that has to be mobile. Mac Jones is not mobile. I think we look at how open his wide receivers are at Alabama — Tua (Tagovailoa, fellow Alabama alum) is having this problem in the NFL — they’re not open in the NFL. You have to throw them open. You have to say, ‘OK, he’s not open now, but if I throw the ball now, he will be open then.’ That anticipation, you don’t have to do that at Alabama. You don’t have to anticipate, these guys are wide open.
“I’m worried about Mac Jones’ mobility, and his ability to throw into tight windows when it’s not perfect.”
I co-sign on all that, too. As Doug Farrar of USA Today pointed out, Alabama went to great lengths to minimize Jones’ need to throw on the move.
I don't necessarily believe the next great QB is going to be the best athlete. The NFL seems to be geared to that but I think someone will break the mold, and in a few big way. They will have to have escapability, pocket presence, high intelligence and ability to think quickly - and an incredible work ethic. But defenses adjust to mobile, "Dual-threat" QB's. Adjusting to a highly intelligent, fast-thinking field general is a whole different thing.
the NFL is a copy cat league. look how many teams switched to the 3-4 because of great steelers 90's defenses. to suggest that QB like dan marino or peyton manning wouldn't thrive in todays NFL because they can't run a 4.5 is just stupid. i mean not long ago teams just had to have a 6'5" QB. physical measurable's should be a plus not a necessity. people conquer physical limitations and do amazing things all the time. MY concern and many others concern is jones arm strength. just watch some of highlights and note the travel time of the ball. he gets the ball there but the velocity you see from guys like fields or wilson just isnt there. if they were pitchers fields and wilson would be throwing high 90's and jones would be throwing in the 80's. he easily got away with it because his receivers always had a 2 steps on the defenders. unlike with Zach Wilson , not once when i watch his highlights do i think, damn that was an impressive throw.
wilson has the "competiton" knock against him..but if you think about it , it makes no sense when you consider he may not have played against great defenses, but he also wasn't throwing to 1st round receivers. if he played for alabama , people would be talking about him just like they are about lawrence. on the flip side i believe if mac jones played for BYU , nobody would be talking about him.
watch both videos and compare not the passes but where the defenders are when the catches are made. you will see the difference between 1st round receivers and late round receivers / undrafted . Dax milne has incredible hands and concentration but not the speed or athleticism , so being able to seperate against NFL defenders is his concern.
watch the throw wilson makes at the 2 minute mark. a 35 yd fast ball on a rope with a defender in the receivers hip pocket. you will not see a throw at that distance from jones. hell just listen to how many time on the wilson video the commentators comment on the throw. jones highlights are mostly him dropping dimes over the top on go routes...but so was mason rudolfs.
You're supporting the argument against Jones because he was on a great team. Accuracy was more important than forcing/driving a ball into traffic. I think he has enough arm strength as some of those highlights in the vid you posted show him throwing with some force and yet he's still not driving the ball with his legs. He's not asked to bring the Howitzer, he's asked to bring a bag of dimes. I'll go back to my original assessment of the guy: He proved he could lead a team with a lot of talented players; he's very accurate; he doesn't make mistakes when he doesn't have to make mistakes (or simply he doesn't lose when the team can win which is an indication he's a smart QB); when he rolls out, his accuracy doesn't seem to diminish. Unknowns are his ability to win the game when his team is losing; facing adversity both in the micro (constant pressure) and in the macro (4th quarter game winning drives). Personally, I don't know if he's going to be good in the NFL, but don't want to bet against the guy just because he played very well for a very dominate team.
I like Wilson as well.
But having said all of the above, I don't think the Steelers go QB this year. Again, if they think the next franchise QB is sitting on the board, maybe they do. But I don't see them drafting just anyone this year.
Great Randino
Posts : 1370 Join date : 2018-08-31
Subject: Re: if he falls to 24..... Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:58 am
the knock on jones isn't just that he was surrounded by top tier talent , although i do believe it is a legit discussion to have. i mean how will he fair when called upon to carry the team at times when he isn't in ideal conditions ? his arm strength and lack of mobility have to be taken into consideration. he would have been fine playing in fichtners dink and dunk system this year. probably would have been better than Ben since he is more accurate. but could he play in 5 step drop down field system like arians with pressure in his face ?
Quote :
“Mac Jones I don’t see being good in the NFL,” Schwartz said. “I think we’re seeing a new version of quarterback that has to be mobile. Mac Jones is not mobile. I think we look at how open his wide receivers are at Alabama — Tua (Tagovailoa, fellow Alabama alum) is having this problem in the NFL — they’re not open in the NFL. You have to throw them open. You have to say, ‘OK, he’s not open now, but if I throw the ball now, he will be open then.’ That anticipation, you don’t have to do that at Alabama. You don’t have to anticipate, these guys are wide open.
“I’m worried about Mac Jones’ mobility, and his ability to throw into tight windows when it’s not perfect.”
I co-sign on all that, too. As Doug Farrar of USA Today pointed out, Alabama went to great lengths to minimize Jones’ need to throw on the move.
I don't necessarily believe the next great QB is going to be the best athlete. The NFL seems to be geared to that but I think someone will break the mold, and in a few big way. They will have to have escapability, pocket presence, high intelligence and ability to think quickly - and an incredible work ethic. But defenses adjust to mobile, "Dual-threat" QB's. Adjusting to a highly intelligent, fast-thinking field general is a whole different thing.
the NFL is a copy cat league. look how many teams switched to the 3-4 because of great steelers 90's defenses. to suggest that QB like dan marino or peyton manning wouldn't thrive in todays NFL because they can't run a 4.5 is just stupid. i mean not long ago teams just had to have a 6'5" QB. physical measurable's should be a plus not a necessity. people conquer physical limitations and do amazing things all the time. MY concern and many others concern is jones arm strength. just watch some of highlights and note the travel time of the ball. he gets the ball there but the velocity you see from guys like fields or wilson just isnt there. if they were pitchers fields and wilson would be throwing high 90's and jones would be throwing in the 80's. he easily got away with it because his receivers always had a 2 steps on the defenders. unlike with Zach Wilson , not once when i watch his highlights do i think, damn that was an impressive throw.
wilson has the "competiton" knock against him..but if you think about it , it makes no sense when you consider he may not have played against great defenses, but he also wasn't throwing to 1st round receivers. if he played for alabama , people would be talking about him just like they are about lawrence. on the flip side i believe if mac jones played for BYU , nobody would be talking about him.
watch both videos and compare not the passes but where the defenders are when the catches are made. you will see the difference between 1st round receivers and late round receivers / undrafted . Dax milne has incredible hands and concentration but not the speed or athleticism , so being able to seperate against NFL defenders is his concern.
watch the throw wilson makes at the 2 minute mark. a 35 yd fast ball on a rope with a defender in the receivers hip pocket. you will not see a throw at that distance from jones. hell just listen to how many time on the wilson video the commentators comment on the throw. jones highlights are mostly him dropping dimes over the top on go routes...but so was mason rudolfs.
You're supporting the argument against Jones because he was on a great team. Accuracy was more important than forcing/driving a ball into traffic. I think he has enough arm strength as some of those highlights in the vid you posted show him throwing with some force and yet he's still not driving the ball with his legs. He's not asked to bring the Howitzer, he's asked to bring a bag of dimes. I'll go back to my original assessment of the guy: He proved he could lead a team with a lot of talented players; he's very accurate; he doesn't make mistakes when he doesn't have to make mistakes (or simply he doesn't lose when the team can win which is an indication he's a smart QB); when he rolls out, his accuracy doesn't seem to diminish. Unknowns are his ability to win the game when his team is losing; facing adversity both in the micro (constant pressure) and in the macro (4th quarter game winning drives). Personally, I don't know if he's going to be good in the NFL, but don't want to bet against the guy just because he played very well for a very dominate team.
I like Wilson as well.
But having said all of the above, I don't think the Steelers go QB this year. Again, if they think the next franchise QB is sitting on the board, maybe they do. But I don't see them drafting just anyone this year.
I am not sold on Jones, but who knows?
Question, and I direct this to all who participate...
Let's say we stay put at 24, and Justin Fields falls and is still on the board. One of the mock drafts predicted this would be the case. Do you snag him with the 24th pick?
Master_Of_Puppets
Posts : 2373 Join date : 2011-04-08
Subject: Re: if he falls to 24..... Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:33 pm
You're supporting the argument against Jones because he was on a great team. Accuracy was more important than forcing/driving a ball into traffic. I think he has enough arm strength as some of those highlights in the vid you posted show him throwing with some force and yet he's still not driving the ball with his legs. He's not asked to bring the Howitzer, he's asked to bring a bag of dimes. I'll go back to my original assessment of the guy: He proved he could lead a team with a lot of talented players; he's very accurate; he doesn't make mistakes when he doesn't have to make mistakes (or simply he doesn't lose when the team can win which is an indication he's a smart QB); when he rolls out, his accuracy doesn't seem to diminish. Unknowns are his ability to win the game when his team is losing; facing adversity both in the micro (constant pressure) and in the macro (4th quarter game winning drives). Personally, I don't know if he's going to be good in the NFL, but don't want to bet against the guy just because he played very well for a very dominate team.
I like Wilson as well.
But having said all of the above, I don't think the Steelers go QB this year. Again, if they think the next franchise QB is sitting on the board, maybe they do. But I don't see them drafting just anyone this year.
Tua Tagovailoa was pretty damn good at Alabama also. he is finding the sledding to be a bit tougher in the NFL. i'm not saying jones cant succeed in the NFL. im saying i wouldnt spend a first round pick to find out. jones made the most of the great situation he was in at alabama. i applaud him for that. but its not like he ever had to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. he not only was delivered free range chickens, they were cooked and cut up for him. to me the most important thing to look out for with a QB is how do they handle pressure...not to often did jones face any pressure. count the throws on that highlight tape he made where he actually had to move around or out of the pocket. i dont know what jones is going to look like in the NFL , but i do know he wont look like he did at alabama.
trivia time - people often bring up OSU's lack of successful NFL QB's. when / who was the last NFL successful QB from Alabama ?......no cheating effyou
Great Randino
Posts : 1370 Join date : 2018-08-31
Subject: Re: if he falls to 24..... Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:54 pm
Ken Stabler Joe Namath Bart Starr.
Master_Of_Puppets
Posts : 2373 Join date : 2011-04-08
Subject: Re: if he falls to 24..... Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:40 pm
If Dickerson can be in the having over in the overcoming his injuries. Could be a beast on it. Just hope he can do that.
dickerson may not even be available to play until a few weeks into the season. i would still take him in round 2 though. maybe sign a cheap vet to hold down the position until he gets up to speed...
we barely got a glimpse of banner at RT and now all the sudden he is a verified LT ? oh hell no. 
TRADE BACK !!!
if he played for alabama , people would be talking about him just like they are about lawrence. on the flip side i believe if mac jones played for BYU , nobody would be talking about him. 
..i got reciepts here on the forum if you want proof, i even predicted he could be a top 5 pick ahead of fields. ... 
